U.S VS Iran getting close

Nice catch, Bluejacket. It's interesting (and disappointing) how utterly predictable most of the US media is. At least the LA Times redeemed it some...





They are both articles calling out claims by the US that Iran is supplying Iraq with weapons in an attempt to instigate war. Recently it seemed as if the media was treating war-mongering claims of Bush against Iran somewhat skeptically, refusing to simply repeat accusations without conducting an investigation to determine validity of claims.

Unfortunately the NY Times did the exact opposite with the article noted by Bluejacket. In it, Michael Gordon literally does nothing but mindlessly recite administration claims regarding Iran's weapon-supplying activity without the slightest questioning, investigation, or any attempt to present ample counter-evidence. He starts the article with this:

The most lethal weapon directed against American troops in Iraq is an explosive-packed cylinder that United States intelligence asserts is being supplied by Iran.

Click to expand...

Is this extremely provocative claim even true? Gordon never says, and in fact he it appears that he doesn't even care. This is extremely irresponsible journalism, and especially worthy of notice because it eerily parallels media acquiescence to administration leading up to the Iraq invasion. Like it or not, the media plays a strong role in shaping public perception about the war, and this is just playing into the administration's hands.

If I may be a bit presumptuous, we don't want to see a war in the Middle East against Iran.

"Z" sez;

Nice catch, Bluejacket. It's interesting (and disappointing) how utterly predictable most of the US media is. At least the LA Times redeemed it some...

Click to expand...

It's like watching a magician pull the same stinkin' rabbit out of his hat time and time again...How predictable..I forecasted this type situation in another thread.

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showpost.php?p=55695&postcount=47

So very true. Look for some sort of "evidence" from the Bush adminstratiion to surface before any attack on Iran is authorized. You can count on that.

Click to expand...

And

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showpost.php?p=55699&postcount=49

So sorry BJ if you did not understand. I feel that if necessary the administration would "manufacture" or "enhance" some sort of evidence as justification for attack on Iraq. Some may be real. some may be contrived.

Listen to US DoD Sec Defense R Gates. He's been beating is Iran War drum since he took for from Rumsfield.

Click to expand...

The Bush regime has something up their sleeves..and it's not a rabbit.

"Z" also sez;

If I may be a bit presumptuous, we don't want to see a war in the Middle East against Iran.

Click to expand...

You know what guys..as I said many times in the past..War Sucks...

Actually, if Iran plays its cards correctly, it would be able to do anti-shipping missions with its Kilos quite well. Since the Persian Gulf is very shallow, US ASW sonars will have an extremely hard time trying to pick up anything in the water since the sonars will be bouncing around everywhere and giving false signs and what not. A member on PDF called Penguin pretty much explained it in great detail about a year ago (that guy is an expert when it comes to naval warfare matters). And the Iranian Kilos won't have an extremely hard time since they would probably know the rough location of the US aicraft carrier battle groups. Above that, will anti-ship missiles with ranges over 100 km, those Kilos can be very dangerous.

Click to expand...

So then, are the U.S. carriers actually deployed in the Persian Gulf or are they operating in the Gulf of Oman or Arabian Sea?

It is something that has confused me.

Here's another announcement by Iran of a new weapon:

The commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guards on Sunday claimed the Iranian military had developed "suicide drones capable of striking at U.S. naval ships to force them to leave the Persian Gulf.

Ali Shoushtari, deputy commander of the Revolutionary Guard's land forces told the semi-official Mehr news agency, "We have built birds without passengers [drones] that can carry out suicide operations on the U.S. Navy, at any depth if necessary, to make them leave the region in disgrace."

He warns of "defeat for the enemy," and added, "Americans know that if they confront the Islamic system, they will not be secure in the region or at home."

Click to expand...

Source:

Creating a new ´Tongking incident´ would indeed relieve Bush jr. of some headaches but engineering a plausible and significant provocation is easier said than done. Of course the Iranian Navy and her Pasdaran naval arm counterparts have strict order to show utmost restraint against USN forces ensuring that they will fire only for purpose of direct selfdefense.

May be that Admiral Fallon has got order by the White House to fire first in the Gulf if an ´imminent threat´ has to be removed but my own bet is that more and more ´iranian terrorists´are killed and taken prisoner in Iraq in the next few weeks and that in late March/early April the first combined search and destroy operations (+ air strikes) in hot pursuit of alleged Pasdaran commandos into iranian territory will be carried out. Of course Tehran will retaliate and voila: Bush jr. has gotten what he ever wanted!

I hope earnestly that my speculation is wrong since the resulting war would be devastating for the whole region and just looking at the daily iraqi horror (want to vomit instantly: check out some of the prolific pics from iraqi hospitals on the net! Well this kind of ´entertainment´corporate media including CNN and interestingly also al-jazeera would certainly show never on their sanitized screens!) is sufficient for predicting a far worse carnage if Iran is attacked (US casualties would be also ´surprisingly´ high).

As bd popeye has said: war sucks!

Violet Oboe said:

Creating a new ´Tongking incident´ would indeed relieve Bush jr. of some headaches but engineering a plausible and significant provocation is easier said than done.

Click to expand...

War with Iran wouldn't help him at all - the American public doesn't want another pointless war right now.

Of course the Iranian Navy and her Pasdaran naval arm counterparts have strict order to show utmost restraint against USN forces ensuring that they will fire only for purpose of direct selfdefense.

Click to expand...

You know this how? Are you a member of the Iranian military command? Who knows what they will do.

Of course Tehran will retaliate and voila: Bush jr. has gotten what he ever wanted!

Click to expand...

I think that's a rather underhand comment to make. There's no evidence Bush wants a war with Iran.

FuManChu said:

There's no evidence Bush wants a war with Iran.

Click to expand...

There is alot of Troop build up in Iraq and around the area. Israel is calling for the war just like they called for the Iraq war.

If there is no evidence to link Iraq to Iran or a nuclear threat, Bush will create the threat and the evidence. Actions speak louder than words. Look at Iraq's WMD.

I think Iran would have learned alot from watching the Iraq war. I wouldn't be surprised if Iran's submarines end up near the shores of the United States of America. Cause I think that would end the war. If Iran fired some missiles directly at the US, the public would go crazy and look for justification for the war. That is just my opinion and guess.

Dont believe Israel is calling for the war,as they will def be in the line of fire and will find themselves fighting a war on at least two fronts against both Iran and Hezbollah,and possibly three fronts.Judging by the fallout over the poor performance against Hezbollah last year,an the fact that their Arrow ABM shield is not yet operational, I believe it in Israel interests to delay for a while.However if conflict starts sooner I believe Israel will be involved as they will be hit anyway!
Dont think Iranian subs will it US mainland, as this will lead Irans total destruction if large numbers of US civilians lose their lives!Any such action will most likely be terrorist related with al qaeda and others taking advantage of the situation,This would also give Iran of some deniability.

alwaysfresh said:

There is alot of Troop build up in Iraq and around the area.

Click to expand...

Have you forgotten about the very "small" matter of the insurgency? You're mad if you believe it's a prelude to an attack on Iran.

Israel is calling for the war just like they called for the Iraq war.

Click to expand...

Where did Israel call for a war with Iran?

If there is no evidence to link Iraq to Iran or a nuclear threat, Bush will create the threat and the evidence. Actions speak louder than words. Look at Iraq's WMD.

Click to expand...

Except there is no good reason for the US to get involved in a war it would find very difficult, if not impossible, to win. It was fairly easy to beat Saddam, but the US knows Iran would be a completely different matter. And it could only contemplate war with Iran if it were able to sufficiently stabilise Iraq - which isn't going to happen anytime soon.

I wouldn't be surprised if Iran's submarines end up near the shores of the United States of America.

Click to expand...

I would be.

Some good critical thinking here! If only more Westerners would be willing to examine the media brainwashing- alas, if they are told lies many times it is being accepted as the whole truth- which, by the way, is the 1st casualty of war! There is a Japanese proverb that goes like this: You tell me once, I trust you; tell me twice, I doubt you; tell me 3 times, I don't believe you. "The US doesn't plan a war with Iran", etc.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

My own take on the issue: isn't it much more likely that most shaped charges are smuggled in or made by Sunni Arab guerrillas, and that the DoD is leaping to the conclusion from a handful of Iranian ones that all are Iranian supplied? It isn't plausible that something could be made in Tehran but not in a workshop in Baghdad; Iraq is an advanced society. And, how much is left from one of those charges afterwards, that you could tell where it came from? This is the same US military that mistakenly attacked a Shiite Husayniya (mourning hall for the martyred grandson of the Prophet) as a death squad safe house, and then announced that they did not know if it was a Sunni or Shiite edifice. They also apparently don't necessarily know whether they are in Sunni or Shiite neighborhoods in Baghdad, or how to judge the likelihood that a shaped charge was set by a Sunni Arab guerrilla as opposed to the Shiite militias. I.e. it isn't necessary to deny that some Iranian weapons are getting in to conclude that they are a tiny proportion of the problem.
And, of course, if US troops weren't in Iraq, they wouldn't be being killed by anyone's shaped charges.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

Tehran fires Tor-M1


US shrugs off Iran's revolutionary spirit

alwaysfresh sez;

I wouldn't be surprised if Iran's submarines end up near the shores of the United States of America. Cause I think that would end the war. If Iran fired some missiles directly at the US, the public would go crazy and look for justification for the war. That is just my opinion and guess.

Click to expand...

I doubt seriously that Iran could operate their subs out of the Persian Gulf. They do not have the logistics to do so.

So, always fresh, what gives you the idea that Iran could attack the US with missiles in the manner you described?