U.S. military says copter down in Iraq

Well, that explains the "surge" in helo downings! Now that the US caught on them, it won't be long before some other tactic is used. Here is a sociologist's take on the whole situation-
Surge and destroy in Iraq

Good innovation by the Iraqis. I find it hard to believe that there aren't more of these stealth technicals. And considering the fact that they went for a few years without anything more that dumb luck success against helicopters, I doubt they will find a quick replacement for this method.

Helicopters have been downed using a combination of automatic rifle fire, heavy-machine-gun attacks and surface-to-air missiles, Ball said.
Enlarging the no-fly zones may push pilots repeatedly into the same areas, creating a pattern insurgents could detect, said Chief Warrant Officer Bobby Remington, who pilots a UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter with the 2nd Battalion.
"It's just a matter of time before the enemy realizes, 'Hey, they used to come that way, now they're coming this way,' " Remington said.
Insurgents have been closely studying the brigade's flying patterns since it arrived in Iraq last summer, said Chief Warrant Officer Antonio Ruiz, another Black Hawk pilot with the battalion. "They're not stupid," he said. "They're learning things. We change, then they change."

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At least this article doesn't have the usual bravado and overconfidence typical in military reporting!

Official: U.S. copter goes down in Iraq


By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press Writer
2 minutes ago



BAGHDAD - A U.S. helicopter went down after coming under fire Thursday in a Sunni militant stronghold south of Baghdad but there was no immediate word on casualties, an Iraqi army official said. The U.S. military said it was looking into the report.


Gunmen opened fire on a Black Hawk helicopter at about 7:30 a.m. as it flew over Latifiyah, 20 miles south of Baghdad, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information.

The helicopter went down in a rural area and U.S. forces had cordoned off the site, the official said. He had no information on casualties but said the militants apparently were using anti-aircraft heavy machine gun.

Latifiyah is part of the area dubbed the Triangle of Death because of frequent insurgent attacks.

The last helicopter incident in Iraq occurred on March 1, when an OH-58 Kiowa helicopter made a "hard landing" in northern Iraq leaving the two crew members wounded. A week earlier, ground fire forced the downing of a Black Hawk north of Baghdad.

With Thursday's incident, at least nine U.S. helicopters have crashed or been brought down by hostile fire this year in Iraq.


Looks like the primary weapon insurgents are using are heavy anti-aircraft guns (like 14.5 and 12.7 types).

Looks like the primary weapon insurgents are using are heavy anti-aircraft guns (like 14.5 and 12.7 types).

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Yep they are back. A few weeks ago the US destroyed several sites with these guns mounted on trucks. Now they are back. Possibly pulled out of hiding or supplied by some other "source".

bd popeye said:

Yep they are back. A few weeks ago the US destroyed several sites with these guns mounted on trucks. Now they are back. Possibly pulled out of hiding or supplied by some other "source".

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With the amount of munitions laying around in Iraq, I won't be surprised if there are countless thousands of these machine guns along with heavier flak guns.

I don't understand why dont US just pull out. The problem is not how many or what kind of weapons out there. The real problem is how many people are willing to fight against you. It's so obvious that Iran would love to provide whatever needed to keep Iraq out of a stable control of US. Now US is even hiding the fact that what kind of weapon took the choper down. But you can see live video on youtube how a missile shot down a choper.

If now you can't deal with several machine guns or small missiles, why did you go to war at the first place?

Well to a certain extent the kind of weaponry you face can strongly affect your willingness to wage war, as well as the tactics used. Numbers are important, but there is still a technology gap that must be breached if insurgents are to wage a powerful resistance movement.

What I'm saying is not who is more capable of war, US or insurgents, coz the answer is obvious. What I mean is what's the benefit for US to stay in Iraq? As long as people keep fighting you, it's a place to let you bleed, no matter how good are you compare to them.

crazyinsane105 said:

With the amount of munitions laying around in Iraq, I won't be surprised if there are countless thousands of these machine guns along with heavier flak guns.

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I also wonder who exactly some of the "Insurregents" actually are. My hunch is that a proportion of these incidents come from local Hard Men (ex Iraqi Army) who are simply complaining that they are not receiving enough "Good Boy" money from the Coalition.

IT begs the fundamental Iraqinomics question, is it cheaper; financially and politicaly, to pay these kinds of guys off, or hit them?