Type 076 LHD/LHA discussion

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Another reasoning against the angled deck for the 076 LHD, apart from the fact where the 076 is actually still an LHD, instead of a fully-fledged CV:

View attachment 130456

Rough illustration made by @horobeyo on Twitter.

Having a ~100 meter EMCAT means that operations of heavier carrier-based aircraft onboard are expected/anticipated.

Subsequently, given the much shorter length of the LHD's flight deck compared to proper CVs - Having an angled deck literally makes no difference to a straight deck in terms on how an aircraft that is landing on the LHD which missed the arresting wires is going to avoid another aircraft that is in the launch position - Simply because, they both cannot.

The launch position of the EMCAT is going to eat into the landing deck in both straight and angled deck configurations either way. So why bother with an angled deck on the 076, when you could just uss a straight deck that can actually save more material and money for having basically similar results (i.e. impossible to have simultaneous landing and launching operations)?

And if you want to widen and/or lengthen the flight deck further just so that your angled landing deck can avoid the EMCAT launch position - Sooner or later, you will just end up with a proper CV instead. See how that "面多了加水,水多了加面" snowballing effect is going?

Furthermore, notice how the angled landing deck actually eats up much of the starboard side spaces at the stern section of the flight deck as well. Coupled with the EMCAT + EMCAT launch position, observe how small the spaces for parking, loading, refueling and servicing aircrafts and helicopters are left on the flight deck.

With a straight deck as seen on the 076, the LHD actually has the spaces along much of the entire length of the flight deck on the starboard side (bar the island superstructures) that can be used for parking, loading, refueling and servicing aircrafts and helicopters. That means at least several more aircrafts and helicopters that can be carried onboard.

So there's that.


I personally have no predictions as to what 076's flight deck geometry will ultimately look like, and I think the best thing for everyone to do is just wait and see how the dust settles instead of trying to justify predictions.


However -- what you've written here about the "EM cat launch position eating into the landing strip" is not that important for whether a CATOBAR carrier or LHD (in 076's case) has an angled landing strip or not.


The angled landing strip has multiple benefits, one of which is that on some carriers it can allow you to have one or two launch positions not eating into your landing strip. However that is not very important because most carriers do cyclical launch and recovery anyway.

That is to say, there are very few situations when your CATOBAR (or STOBAR) carrier or LHD should be conducting simultaneous launch and recovery operations.



What is actually important for an angled landing strip, is that it allows you to recover aircraft while freeing up more of your bow deck space to position and spot aircraft during a recovery cycle.
If you do not have an angled landing strip and instead have a straight deck arrangement, what you end up with is much less bow deck space to position and spot aircraft; almost your entire flight deck has to be used for recovering aircraft except for the side edges of the starboard deck.

See below to see what I mean, a quick and dirty adaptation from the drawing from horobeyo compared to a straight deck arrangement. The green is the theoretical "safe" area you can use to spot aircraft or have crew or deck vehicles be placed.


1717375058030.png



.... all of this isn't to say I have a particularly strong feeling as to which configuration the final 076 will go for or which one is "superior" because ultimately each has its costs.

But the discussion about angled deck versus straight deck in general (i.e.: not in isolation to 076 only) should be made not in relation to "simultaneous launch and recovery" because that is a relatively unimportant capability or role even for full sized carriers.
Instead, what's important is the real estate to spot and position aircraft on the ship while also conducting recovery.


I.e.: people should view "simultaneous launch and recovery" as useless and just ignore that term completely because its significance is vastly overrated in context of modern cyclical flight operations.
 
Last edited:

Untoldpain

Junior Member
Registered Member
We do not yet know Type-076's exact mission profile, or the number of fixed wing aircraft vs rotorcraft it is designed to carry. Both would factor greatly into its flight deck layout.

As a point of comparison, LHD-6 had its entire well deck removed to make more room for aircraft and aviation fuel, and still can only operate up to 20 F-35B Lighting II + 2 MH-60S Seahawk in its "Lighting Carrier" configuration. A far more typical configuration only sees 6 STOVL F-35B Lighting II onboard, plus various other rotorcrafts and tilt rotorcrafts to support amphibious operation.

The currently known info on Type-076 suggest it is still designed for the amphibious assault mission first and foremost, with a additional ability to carry unmanned/manned fixed wing aircraft to support such operation. Only a single EM cat is observed so far.

Angled deck and its various benefits for flight operations are well known, but type-076 is unlikely to operate as a fully fledged fleet carrier. It could very well be that for the number of fixed wing aircraft Type-076 will carry, recovered aircrafts can be fully accommodated in the deck space ahead of the island in a straight deck configuration.

For the Type-076, A angled flight deck may incur too much penalty both from a structural and operation perspective to include, relative to its designed mission criteria.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
We do not yet know Type-076's exact mission profile, or the number of fixed wing aircraft vs rotorcraft it is designed to carry. Both would factor greatly into its flight deck layout.

As a point of comparison, LHD-6 had its entire well deck removed to make more room for aircraft and aviation fuel, and still can only operate up to 20 F-35B Lighting II + 2 MH-60S Seahawk in its "Lighting Carrier" configuration. A far more typical configuration only sees 6 STOVL F-35B Lighting II onboard, plus various other rotorcrafts and tilt rotorcrafts to support amphibious operation.

The currently known info on Type-076 suggest it is still designed for the amphibious assault mission first and foremost, with a additional ability to carry unmanned/manned fixed wing aircraft to support such operation. Only a single EM cat is observed so far.

Angled deck and its various benefits for flight operations are well known, but type-076 is unlikely to operate as a fully fledged fleet carrier. It could very well be that for the number of fixed wing aircraft Type-076 will carry, recovered aircrafts can be fully accommodated in the deck space ahead of the island in a straight deck configuration.

For the Type-076, A angled flight deck may incur too much penalty both from a structural and operation perspective to include, relative to its designed mission criteria.

It doesn't really matter right now which flight deck configuration 076 will have.
That answer will come in time, and as I said, there are fair reasons to justify both of the decisions whichever they go with.
There are pros and cons to both (even in context of the rather complex and costly addition of the EM catapult itself as well as the necessity of having arresting gear no matter whether they have an angled landing strip or not).


However at the very least people should know what the actual pros and cons of each configuration are -- the primary (or even secondary) benefit of the angled deck isn't to enable "simultaneous launch and recovery".
Rather it is the ability to have more flight deck area that you can freely spot aircraft.
 

grulle

Junior Member
Registered Member
any reason why this new assault ship is so wide? China seems to have created its own class of assault ships lol.
 
Top