Type 076 LHD/LHA discussion

crash8pilot said:

You’re basing this off the US’s history and track record of the Osprey. Even with that said, the Osprey program seems to have ironed out its kinks, with its readiness plans altered and maintenance streamlined. Despite the setbacks, DoD is still buying in big on the program because it is that much of a game changer on the battlefield. America sets the bar, and as part of the PLA’s modernization plans I think it might be worth looking into why DoD values the Osprey so much... Especially when we have our sights set on becoming a true blue water navy.

Bringing this back to the Sino side of things - I’m not saying Chinese ingenuity will do a better job than the good folks at Boeing and Bell, I’m saying we haven’t even tried. Perhaps what we come up with might be more efficient and cost effective than the Osprey? We’ve done a good job with the J-20 as China’s answer to the F-22 (the Mighty Dragon certainly costs less than the Raptor), I can’t see why we can’t do the same with tilt rotors.

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Compound helicopter is a good avenue too. Sure that something will be build to fill that gap. But right now they need to ramp up production to fill these ships, the 75 need their airwings too.. Better to have something than waiting for the grail. The big thing also about the 76 lhd is the emphasis on UAV.

crash8pilot said:

Even with that said, the Osprey program seems to have ironed out its kinks, with its readiness plans altered and maintenance streamlined.

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They did sort it out, through several generations of test and operational aircraft. No one else did as of yet, italian one seems to be a failure.

China isn't exactly a leader in rotary wing aircraft, neither in helicopters nor in their engines and transmission units. And tilt rotors are probably single most complex operational machines in this field.

As much as I'd like American monopoly broken - this will probably be a harder thing to get than a F-35 class VTOL jet.

Gloire_bb said:

They did sort it out, through several generations of test and operational aircraft. No one else did as of yet, italian one seems to be a failure.

China isn't exactly a leader in rotary wing aircraft, neither in helicopters nor in their engines and transmission units. And tilt rotors are probably single most complex operational machines in this field.

As much as I'd like American monopoly broken - this will probably be a harder thing to get than a F-35 class VTOL jet.

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I don't know about that. I think the PLA is better off waiting this one out. It could be that in a decade you can do a similar aircraft with electric motors much more easily and cheaply. You wouldn't need all those hydraulics for one. Remove those and use an electric motor and it would be infinitely easier to design and build.

Gloire_bb said:

China isn't exactly a leader in rotary wing aircraft, neither in helicopters nor in their engines and transmission units.

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You mean how we're still relying on Russian engines to field our fighters, transport aircraft, and helicopters instead of pressing on with our WS-10/-15/-20 turbofan projects, despite the many setbacks and delays? Everyone needs to start somewhere to become a leader.

gelgoog said:

I don't know about that. I think the PLA is better off waiting this one out. It could be that in a decade you can do a similar aircraft with electric motors much more easily and cheaply. You wouldn't need all those hydraulics for one. Remove those and use an electric motor and it would be infinitely easier to design and build.

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The CH-10 tilt rotor UAV drone seems to say anything but "waiting this one out". While a drone is small in size, at least it proves we have a working concept we can use to eventually build a 20-40 ton tilt rotor aircraft, which would maximize the war fighting capabilities of a LHD/LHA.

crash8pilot said:

You mean how we're still relying on Russian engines to field our fighters, transport aircraft, and helicopters instead of pressing on with our WS-10/-15/-20 turbofan projects, despite the many setbacks and delays? Everyone needs to start somewhere to become a leader.

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Nope, not just that. I highly doubt Russia itself is up to the task.

Europe as of now certainly can't. Maybe their next try will work out.
High speed helicopters and tiltrotors may not seem that fancy, but from engineering point of view, those are really treading at the very edge of possible.

Gloire_bb said:

Nope, not just that. I highly doubt Russia itself is up to the task.

Europe as of now certainly can't. Maybe their next try will work out.
High speed helicopters and tiltrotors may not seem that fancy, but from engineering point of view, those are really treading at the very edge of possible.

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Just sayin we first announced our intentions to get behind tilt rotor technology back in 2015, and two years ago we came up with a working tilt rotor UAV drone. Now a drone is still a long ways from us seeing a 20 to 40ton tilt rotor prototype or actual aircraft, but I'd hardly say we're giving up... especially considering the missions and capabilities tilt rotors can fulfil if the PLAN is to become a true blue water navy and a legitimate threat in amphibious assault warfare.

It is a long way indeed.

I don't claim it will take as long(it won't, tech, design, and testing methods moved away very far from that point), but the first Bell tilt rotor, the XV-3, flew...more than 65 years (!) ago, in 1955. It was already a Bell affair.

It was tested for a whole decade and paved the way for the 1970s XV-15... which seemed to be on a direct path to the operational aircraft, "almost there", so they went directly for the Osprey.

V-22 Osprey first took off in 1989 and required glorious 20 years to reach operational status. Actually "30 years" is probably closer to the truth, because only now we see export contracts, i.e. there are customers who are actually buying it for its merits alone.

Another one, civilian AW609 from 2001, is still undergoing testing(once again, almost 20 years), and it isn't going easy on them. Granted, part of the problem is regulatory/legal, but aircraft itself is a mess as well.

At least as of now, there is finally light at the end of the tunnel, and V-280 seems to proceed smoothly. But again, it's a 4th generation tilt rotor from a single aircraft manufacturer actually building them.

Here is an old image (from 2016). Could this be 076?

nabla said:

Here is an old image (from 2016). Could this be 076?

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That was a firefighting and rescue service testfield for Liaoning and Shandong.

lcloo said:

China has an Harrier GR5 in a military aircraft museum, not sure where they got it from, but it is there for many decades. They must have looked through every part of it.

View attachment 62882

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That's a GR3.