Turkey Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

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DefenceTurk

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Registered Member
ougoah said:
SOOOOO much fake news bullshit made up by one side. The "expert" is named little fat pig in Chinese. Clearly not a real expert or even real person... probably made up character to lend credence to the claim. Bogus self-congradulating claims like this is embarrassing. No real Chinese military expert says much about other countries if ever. Never with this much certainty. My guess is Turkish fabrication to make it sound like another country's "expert" is giving them praise.

In all honesty, Russian forces will eat Turkish ones for a snack using their left hand only. Personally I've no dog in that race but get real. All those bogus big talk have been debunked and short of shooting down unsupported Su-24s with F-16s and low altitude slow drones (generation gap and a striker vs fighter!) there's nothing more to see. What about the dozens of Turkish drones being shot down to the point Erdogan had to beg Putin for de-escalations.

Su-35s may be at a slight SA disadvantage vs F-16s supported by AWACS big deal even if true. If A-100 was supporting Su-35, it may be a different story. Twitter is full of India stronkists and Turkish stronkists. I think they've talked themselves into believing their imaginary might. Cannot wait for these clowns to get into a real war without big daddy countries in front of them.

GlobalDefenceCorp like Alphadefence and all the random Indian, Vietnamese, Russian based fanboy sites have lost all credibility. But if you haven't been aware of the past examples of their blunders, inaccuracies, and pure lies, then at least know their Chinese expert is made up... most likely by themselves. Absolutely pathetic teenager wank fests of A is more powerful than B, "why XYZ will remain the best forever" trash content.
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Aside from the claims in the article; Turkey did not lose dozens of drones. The proven loss 4. Of these, 3 have been officially announced. Turkey's Spring Shield operation losses are 2 UAV ANKA-S and 2 TB-2 Bayraktars . 2 of them were crashed, others were dropped by air defense systems. But these UAVs destroyed at least 2-3 air defense systems. However, this success is not UAVs. Aselsan's Electronic Warfare (MİLKAR 3A3, MİLKAR 2U, Koral, REDET II and more).

Turkey many years ago had learned the importance of Electronic Warfare from Israel.

Turkish Air Force is an active air force whose pilot training flight time is very high. One of the AWE & C aircraft, MESA uses E7Ts with radar. It makes instant control and information sharing of the field and aerial image with its command control systems.
With which missiles will the Russian Su-35 attack Turkish planes? With R-77s that aren't yet running? Or how will they share data with the A-100, which has been trying to improve its communication and aerial picture capability for years? Everyone knows that the command control of the Russians is problematic.
 
O

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
DefenceTurk said:
Aside from the claims in the article; Turkey did not lose dozens of drones. The proven loss 4. Of these, 3 have been officially announced. Turkey's Spring Shield operation losses are 2 UAV ANKA-S and 2 TB-2 Bayraktars . 2 of them were crashed, others were dropped by air defense systems. But these UAVs destroyed at least 2-3 air defense systems. However, this success is not UAVs. Aselsan's Electronic Warfare (MİLKAR 3A3, MİLKAR 2U, Koral, REDET II and more).

Turkey many years ago had learned the importance of Electronic Warfare from Israel.

Turkish Air Force is an active air force whose pilot training flight time is very high. One of the AWE & C aircraft, MESA uses E7Ts with radar. It makes instant control and information sharing of the field and aerial image with its command control systems.
With which missiles will the Russian Su-35 attack Turkish planes? With R-77s that aren't yet running? Or how will they share data with the A-100, which has been trying to improve its communication and aerial picture capability for years? Everyone knows that the command control of the Russians is problematic.
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I'm not aware the R-77s aren't running. Su-35 cannot fire the R-77M?

The dozens number claims are admittedly from Russian/Greek sources which obviously are going to be working against the Turkish narrative. They claim the "proven" losses number to several a day for about half a week. The article we're talking about is trash and made up. The "Chinese expert statement" is falsified if any such expert even exists. How a full scale war would look like between Russia and Turkey, I suppose we have our own ideas and opinions.
 
D

DefenceTurk

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ougoah said:
I'm not aware the R-77s aren't running. Su-35 cannot fire the R-77M?

The dozens number claims are admittedly from Russian/Greek sources which obviously are going to be working against the Turkish narrative. They claim the "proven" losses number to several a day for about half a week. The article we're talking about is trash and made up. The "Chinese expert statement" is falsified if any such expert even exists. How a full scale war would look like between Russia and Turkey, I suppose we have our own ideas and opinions.
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Russians still rely on R-27 derivatives more than R77s. The R-77s never gave preference results.

Where is the evidence of the Russians and Greeks? It’s a field we follow minute by minute They are showing accidents in the past and rotating the same images. Even Turkey shared the view that destroyed air defense systems. Where are the images other than the 4 falling aircrafts?
It doesn't matter what the Chinese writer says?" What will happen in a war environment close to the Turkish mainland and what will happen in a medium close to the Russian mainland?
Turkey mainland, Russian air force can’t breath on the Syrian airspace. This is not romance, it's the truth.
Link-16, E7T, AMRAAM C-7, a variety of electronic warfare facilities with more powerful and good-value with fire support capabilities extending from Turkey to Syria Russians depth. (On Syria) Likewise, the Russians are more advantageous in the Black Sea.


Therefore, a generalizing view that the Su-35s are hunting Turkish planes is unreasonable
 
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DefenceTurk

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Operation Spring Shield: Looking into the Combat Environment of the Future

Upon the Operation Spring Shield launched by Turkey on February 27th, Turkish Armed Forces (TAF) has excelled at the coordination of manned and unmanned system in the field, resulting in a high-level operational success.

With modern systems of today that were used, the operation also exhibited a scene from the wars of future in terms of type and doctrine.

“A New War Doctrine”

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DefenceTurk

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Turkish Air Forces Drill in the Mediterranean Draws Attention

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According to the statement made by the Ministry of National Defense (MND), Turkish Air Forces conducted a highly important drill over Mediterranean on Friday, April 17, 2020.

Some of the units joining the drill were surveilled via civil air traffic control sites. A certain part of flight routes of 3 KC-135R aerial refueling aircrafts, 1 E7T Peace Eagle airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft and C-130 transport aircraft was surveilled over civil air traffic control sites. Whereas E7T Peace Eagle occasionally surveilles over the region, 3 aerial refueling aircrafts has drawn attention, due to the rarity of them in such missions. A number of either F-16 or F-4 fighter planes are estimated to have joined the drill.
 
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DefenceTurk

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DefenceTurk said:
Turkish Air Forces Drill in the Mediterranean Draws Attention



According to the statement made by the Ministry of National Defense (MND), Turkish Air Forces conducted a highly important drill over Mediterranean on Friday, April 17, 2020.

Some of the units joining the drill were surveilled via civil air traffic control sites. A certain part of flight routes of 3 KC-135R aerial refueling aircrafts, 1 E7T Peace Eagle airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft and C-130 transport aircraft was surveilled over civil air traffic control sites. Whereas E7T Peace Eagle occasionally surveilles over the region, 3 aerial refueling aircrafts has drawn attention, due to the rarity of them in such missions. A number of either F-16 or F-4 fighter planes are estimated to have joined the drill.
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ougoah

Brigadier
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DefenceTurk said:
Russians still rely on R-27 derivatives more than R77s. The R-77s never gave preference results.

Where is the evidence of the Russians and Greeks? It’s a field we follow minute by minute They are showing accidents in the past and rotating the same images. Even Turkey shared the view that destroyed air defense systems. Where are the images other than the 4 falling aircrafts?
It doesn't matter what the Chinese writer says?" What will happen in a war environment close to the Turkish mainland and what will happen in a medium close to the Russian mainland?
Turkey mainland, Russian air force can’t breath on the Syrian airspace. This is not romance, it's the truth.
Link-16, E7T, AMRAAM C-7, a variety of electronic warfare facilities with more powerful and good-value with fire support capabilities extending from Turkey to Syria Russians depth. (On Syria) Likewise, the Russians are more advantageous in the Black Sea.


Therefore, a generalizing view that the Su-35s are hunting Turkish planes is unreasonable
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Well my point is there is no "chinese writer". It's made up probably by someone who is sympathetic to the Turkish side of operations.

What do you mean by R-77's never gave preference results? I'm assuming it's never been proven in combat. Okay if that is assumed to be the case, how does that relate to Su-35's using R-77s. RuAF does still use a lot of R-27s but what does that have to do with Su-35's capable of carrying better missiles than R-27? You seem to be suggesting the Turkish airforce can handle the Russians because R-77s are not proven and Su-35s don't seem to be using them much. Would that be accurate?

The Greek/Russia guys have loads and loads of twitter posts which I'm sure you have seen here and there. Sure I agree with you that they may not all be truthful and actual examples of destroyed Turkish drones. Exaggerated or not, the point here is anyone can make stuff up and this article is CLEARLY doing exactly that. It is the first offender and replying to the supposition with some balancing views cancels that noise out.
 
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Tirdent

Junior Member
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Turkey has indeed doubled down on EW, to their credit, but some of the claims in that article are definitely doubtful at best and ludicrous at worst.

- Turkish E-737s with CEC? Source (and I mean a trustworthy, reputable source)?
- Russia has only a small number of A-50U in service? Define "small" - as of last year there were 6 of them, which I guess by Russian standards is rather limited, but then the Turkish E-737 fleet numbers only 4, so who's talking? And it's hardly as though the indeterminate but double-digit number of standard A-50s counts for nothing at all, either. They're rather long in the tooth nowadays, but still capable assets.
- R-77 doesn't work? Source (and I mean a trustworthy, reputable source)? Better tell the dozens of export customers who make this the second-best selling ARH AAM after the AIM-120, too. As for Russia, due to poor funding and a long-time lack of launch aircraft with radars equipped for such missiles, they were late-adopters. But at least since the introduction of the Su-30SM and Su-35, the R-77 is firmly part of the Russian arsenal - especially the Su-35s in Syria are almost always carrying it. There indeed are still some R-27s around, but these are *exclusively* the R-27TE long-range IR-guided version. This offers a unique capability to complement the radar-guided R-77 and short-range R-73, one that is notably absent from Turkey's F-16s...
- Data links? Old hat to the Russians - they already had TKS-2 intra-flight data links fleet-wide on their vanilla Su-27s at a time when the number of F-15s in USAF service with JTIDS stood at 18. That's not a typo, only 18, not 180. The rest of the fleet did not get one until MIDS in the early 2000s, and while Link-16 (JTIDS/MIDS) is somewhat better than TKS-2, the Russians have not been sitting on their hands either. Su-35s, Su-30SMs and late-production Su-27SMs are fitted with the new S-107-1 data link which is said to be comparable to (in fact, possibly even compatible with) Link-16. Next step will be S-111 for the Su-57, probably S-107-1 inter-operable but employing EMCON and directional antennas for LO.
- Turkish UAV and Syrian SAM losses? I don't think we can believe information from either side, not on their own losses and probably not even the kill claims. Yeah, UAVs do crash quite a bit, so some of the Turkish losses may not be attributable to enemy action, but equally some of the SAM kills may have been decoys (Russia makes some very sophisticated inflatable decoys, including internal corner reflectors and heat sources to achieve realistic radar and IR signatures).
 
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O

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
DefenceTurk said:
It doesn't matter what the Chinese writer says?" What will happen in a war environment close to the Turkish mainland and what will happen in a medium close to the Russian mainland?
Turkey mainland, Russian air force can’t breath on the Syrian airspace. This is not romance, it's the truth.
Link-16, E7T, AMRAAM C-7, a variety of electronic warfare facilities with more powerful and good-value with fire support capabilities extending from Turkey to Syria Russians depth. (On Syria) Likewise, the Russians are more advantageous in the Black Sea.


Therefore, a generalizing view that the Su-35s are hunting Turkish planes is unreasonable
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Like all the twitter troll squads from India and Turkey, you don't need actual substance. Unfounded arrogance is enough to make these sorts of statements. It's the talk only, no substance crew. I think the only one here Romanticising anything is you. How frustratingly ironic. Tirdent provided paragraphs worth of actual substance which you can dig into if you're genuinely interested and you can maybe get back to him to engage properly. Rather than saying "RuAF can't breath on the Syrian airspace", back it up. I'm saying Turkey wouldn't last a week in Syria because it had to unilaterally beg for de-escalations as it started losing more drones in a few days of fighting than most lose in a few months of similar operation levels.

Also Su-35s hunting Turkish planes is something you made up. All I was saying is that it's unfair to compare F-16s operating with support. If Su-35s had support, it would at least equal the situational awareness between the two. Out of these, the Su-35 generally carries more weapons and can loiter for longer. If all critical subsystems are comparable (they are not and in Su-35's favour!), then obviously Su-35s will dominate the F-16s. Turkish F-16s are not the most modern. They also do not have access to the latest US weaponry. The Su-35 is currently RuAF's latest and greatest frontline fighter with all its best (tested and proven) gizmos onboard. Given the absence of detailed information, I'd comfortably assume the RuAF will have a major advantage in the skies if numbers are more or less equal. Of course this isn't true because Turkey is next door and Russia has but one main base in Syria. In reality Turkey will win by attrition, something Russian military planners know. Therefore if there were really any fighting between the two in Syria, Russian will absolutely flatten Turkey whole first. There wouldn't need to be any Su-35 vs F-16 because there will be no airfields left for F-16s. If hypothetically it came to a x vs x fight, wouldn't Russia's most modern fighter hold over decades old F-16s? Comparing respective MICs make the case even more obviously in Russia's favour. Spare us the but country X has a magical mojo formula which always seems to be the cop-out excuse by twitter brain stronkists. They are always undoubtedly better because, "don't even go there... we're the best didn't you know?" lol again facts are Turkey pulled out within weeks of getting pummeled non stop and inflicting smaller damage. I guess they were kept on a leash right? :rolleyes: Like Russia isn't holding back even more.

These convos are like the ones on PDF with Turkish flaggers bragging like they're the USA or some country with actual merit. Never giving details or reasons, just cheap personal racist attacks and self-claimed superiority. I guess spread the lie for long enough and enough hare brains believe it... until a real fight reveals the truth.
 
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araberuni

Junior Member
Registered Member
ougoah said:
Like all the twitter troll squads from India and Turkey, you don't need actual substance. Unfounded arrogance is enough to make these sorts of statements. It's the talk only, no substance crew. I think the only one here Romanticising anything is you. How frustratingly ironic. Tirdent provided paragraphs worth of actual substance which you can dig into if you're genuinely interested and you can maybe get back to him to engage properly. Rather than saying "RuAF can't breath on the Syrian airspace", back it up. I'm saying Turkey wouldn't last a week in Syria because it had to unilaterally beg for de-escalations as it started losing more drones in a few days of fighting than most lose in a few months of similar operation levels.

Also Su-35s hunting Turkish planes is something you made up. All I was saying is that it's unfair to compare F-16s operating with support. If Su-35s had support, it would at least equal the situational awareness between the two. Out of these, the Su-35 generally carries more weapons and can loiter for longer. If all critical subsystems are comparable (they are not and in Su-35's favour!), then obviously Su-35s will dominate the F-16s. Turkish F-16s are not the most modern. They also do not have access to the latest US weaponry. The Su-35 is currently RuAF's latest and greatest frontline fighter with all its best (tested and proven) gizmos onboard. Given the absence of detailed information, I'd comfortably assume the RuAF will have a major advantage in the skies if numbers are more or less equal. Of course this isn't true because Turkey is next door and Russia has but one main base in Syria. In reality Turkey will win by attrition, something Russian military planners know. Therefore if there were really any fighting between the two in Syria, Russian will absolutely flatten Turkey whole first. There wouldn't need to be any Su-35 vs F-16 because there will be no airfields left for F-16s. If hypothetically it came to a x vs x fight, wouldn't Russia's most modern fighter hold over decades old F-16s? Comparing respective MICs make the case even more obviously in Russia's favour. Spare us the but country X has a magical mojo formula which always seems to be the cop-out excuse by twitter brain stronkists. They are always undoubtedly better because, "don't even go there... we're the best didn't you know?" lol again facts are Turkey pulled out within weeks of getting pummeled non stop and inflicting smaller damage. I guess they were kept on a leash right? :rolleyes: Like Russia isn't holding back even more.

These convos are like the ones on PDF with Turkish flaggers bragging like they're the USA or some country with actual merit. Never giving details or reasons, just cheap personal racist attacks and self-claimed superiority. I guess spread the lie for long enough and enough hare brains believe it... until a real fight reveals the truth.
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Calm down buddy. If Russian Su-35 are that good it should have shot down few Israeli and Turkish F-16. The S-400 is advertised to shoot down F-35 so far proved nothing. IDF disclosed flight path of F-35 over S-400. Well S-400 was sleeping.
 
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