Turkey Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

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Deleted member 13312

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AndrewS said:
I think Turkey wants SAM systems that can successfully deter Russian aircraft from performing airstrikes in Syria.

Since the Russians built the S-400 that was supplied to Turkey, these don't deter Russian aircraft.

But the Patriot (even if operated by Turkish personnel) would deter?

And presumably Turkish operated HQ-9 batteries would do the same.
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if we both read what various articles stated, it is clear that Turkey wants the US to operate their SAM on the borders. If they wanted to operate them on their own they would have say they wanted to buy them instead.
This entire act is geopolitical in nature. It is to get the US directly involved as so to allow for Turkey an off ramp opportunity to descalate the situation or an umbrella of which it can continue to support its militants under. Russia is not going to directly strike at US assets because that will escalate matters directly.
If even Turkey had gotten the HQ-9 it would not have made much differences unless they were manned by PLAAF personal under Chinese command.
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Viktor Jav said:
if we both read what various articles stated, it is clear that Turkey wants the US to operate their SAM on the borders. If they wanted to operate them on their own they would have say they wanted to buy them instead.
This entire act is geopolitical in nature. It is to get the US directly involved as so to allow for Turkey an off ramp opportunity to descalate the situation or an umbrella of which it can continue to support its militants under. Russia is not going to directly strike at US assets because that will escalate matters directly.
If even Turkey had gotten the HQ-9 it would not have made much differences unless they were manned by PLAAF personal under Chinese command.
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That is all true.

But if you remember, US-Turkey relations are still broken following the coup attempt against Erdogan.

So US troops operating Patriots in Turkey is not going to happen, as long as Erdogan keeps holding a grudge against the US for the coup attempt.

Turkey buying Patriots is not an option either, because it takes time to train the personnel to use them properly.

Plus the US probably wouldn't sell them, given that Turkey has selected the S-400. I remember a lot of US pressure being put on Turkey during that competition.

Hence my view that in retrospect, Turkey probably should have picked the Chinese SAM system during that competition, as it should be effective against aircraft operated by Syria or Russia.

So Turkey could credibly enforce a no-fly zone all by itself, without having to rely on an unreliable Russia or USA.

And China is neutral because it doesn't want to get directly involved in the mess that is the Middle East. Look at how China sells weapons to both Iran and Saudi Arabia, and values good relations with both.
 
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Deleted member 13312

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AndrewS said:
That is all true.

But if you remember, US-Turkey relations are still broken following the coup attempt against Erdogan.

So US troops operating Patriots in Turkey is not going to happen, as long as Erdogan keeps holding a grudge against the US for the coup attempt.

Turkey buying Patriots is not an option either, because it takes time to train the personnel to use them properly.

Plus the US probably wouldn't sell them, given that Turkey has selected the S-400. I remember a lot of US pressure being put on Turkey during that competition.

Hence my view that in retrospect, Turkey probably should have picked the Chinese SAM system during that competition, as it should be effective against aircraft operated by Syria or Russia.

So Turkey could credibly enforce a no-fly zone all by itself, without having to rely on an unreliable Russia or USA.

And China is neutral because it doesn't want to get directly involved in the mess that is the Middle East. Look at how China sells weapons to both Iran and Saudi Arabia, and values good relations with both.
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Even without a long range SAM system, Turkey has other options available against the Syrian and the Russians, at present it has the largest and most competent airforce available in the conflict which is perfectly capable of conducting no fly operations. And it's not like the Syrians and the Russians are using anything exceptionally capable.
And yes before we bring up the S-400 in Syria, Turkey has routinely practiced SEAD operations in the past. And we all know for a fact how incompetent the Syrians are in regards to AA defense. So I will give them at least a fighting chance in this area with Russia having to content with a stretched logistics and what not.
It's not like Turkey had not done this before, they shot down a Su-24 in the past in which both sides claimed it was an accidental tresspass. But acting directly against Russia now would be an act of war in all but name and the resulting escalation will very likely involve confrontations along Turkey's north border along the Black Sea as well.
Suppose if Turkey actually had the HQ-9, the Syrians might back off but Russia might very well just employ SEAD ops against Turkey. Its not like the HQ-9 is a completely alien tech to them, in fact they are the ones who perfected the art of modern SAM tactics. As Israel had demonstrated in Syria, having a long range SAM does not necessarily mean the other side countered entirely.
In fact if as we speak, Turkey is invoking Article 4 of the NATO treaty which all but solidifies the geopolitical nature of their request.
But in the end as you say, it is unlikely that the US will oblige Turkey in this matter. Basically it is the request stinks of desperation.
 
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plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
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Syria war: Alarm after 33 Turkish soldiers killed in attack in Idlib
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Syrian air strikes just took out 33 Turkish soldiers inside Syria.

Look like Syria isn’t afraid of Turkey and feel they can take back their lost territory and totally drive out the last of the terrorists/insurgents now that the US has bailed.

For all it’s paper might and imperialist arrogance, Turkey isn’t delivering on the battlefield at all.

Running crying to NATO will not help them as NATO will refuse any and all Turkish requests for direct aid since Turkish troops are dying on Syrian soil, so no one who isn’t completely biased or deluded could possible argue that Turkey is the innocent victim in need of protection against aggression here. If anything, such a silly move will just make the Turks look weak and stupid, since they cannot even bully a hopeless outmatched neighbour without needing to beg for help from allies.

This is what happens when thin-skinned incompetent Tyrants take over and consolidate power - they get rid of all the competent people who dare to tell them the truth and instead surround themselves with sycophant yes-men who further inflate their already ridiculously bloated egos.

Insert surprised pikachu face when the ridiculously optimistic projections of said yes-men collapse around their ears and reality bites them in the butt.
 
Broccoli

Broccoli

Senior Member
plawolf said:
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Syrian air strikes just took out 33 Turkish soldiers inside Syria.

Look like Syria isn’t afraid of Turkey and feel they can take back their lost territory and totally drive out the last of the terrorists/insurgents now that the US has bailed.

For all it’s paper might and imperialist arrogance, Turkey isn’t delivering on the battlefield at all.

Running crying to NATO will not help them as NATO will refuse any and all Turkish requests for direct aid since Turkish troops are dying on Syrian soil, so no one who isn’t completely biased or deluded could possible argue that Turkey is the innocent victim in need of protection against aggression here. If anything, such a silly move will just make the Turks look weak and stupid, since they cannot even bully a hopeless outmatched neighbour without needing to beg for help from allies.

This is what happens when thin-skinned incompetent Tyrants take over and consolidate power - they get rid of all the competent people who dare to tell them the truth and instead surround themselves with sycophant yes-men who further inflate their already ridiculously bloated egos.

Insert surprised pikachu face when the ridiculously optimistic projections of said yes-men collapse around their ears and reality bites them in the butt.
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Now hours later Turks have destroyer dozens of Syrian artillery pieces, SAMs, tanks, and killed hundreds of Syrian soldiers.

Without Russians it's very likely that Syrian army is neck deep on it.
 
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Chish

Junior Member
Registered Member
Broccoli said:
Now hours later Turks have destroyer dozens of Syrian artillery pieces, SAMs, tanks, and killed hundreds of Syrian soldiers.

Without Russians it's very likely that Syrian army is neck deep on it.
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Any link to your claim? What you claimed is an all out war. Keep in mind that SinoDefence Forum is for serious news and discussions.
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Erdogan is expected by most Turks to respond commensurately so it's not impossible for these strikes to have happened in the last day or so. Also knocking out these sites and Pantsirs are also not beyond the capabilities of Turkey by any measure. Don't care to doubt or believe in these clips, what matters is Turkey seems to have no outs or alternatives on offer except for complete withdrawal which won't be too palatable for many groups involved or Erdogan's reputation. Therefore only escalation between SAA and Turkey. Interesting to see how S-400, nuclear plant, and turkstream go now. Not to mention Patriot, F-35, Su-57/Su-35 interest.
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Syria war: Turkey lets refugees exit towards Europe

The country is hosting 3.7 million Syrian refugees as well as migrants from other countries such as Afghanistan - but had previously stopped them from leaving for Europe under an aid-linked deal with the EU.

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