Trade War with China

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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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China should keep its balance or otherwise the US will further push it into a Cold War like situation where the world would be partitioned into two economic blocks. It is in the best interests of China to avoid that trap. China should make itself the preeminent champion of rationality in the world economy and not fall in the US's temptation. The US is trashing around because they are losing their position of preeminence.
With regards to Rubio's actions simply use the US's own shackles against them. Fight those laws in the WIPO and WTO.
According to the treaties China can apply counters to compensate them for damages.
 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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Peter2018 said:
When are they going to recover the territories from the Qing Empire?
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Nice joke. China has signed a treaty with Russia after 1991 to settle their borders. Unlike in the Qing era the borders are along natural boundaries like mountains and rivers and are hence much more defensible. This means it is much cheaper to defend the territory.

The fact that China did not push the Russians into a much harder deal, since this was signed just after the Soviet Union collapsed, tells a lot about China's attitudes towards the rest of the world compared with the US's. I think this was facilitated by the fact the Soviets returned much Chinese territory after capturing it from Japan in WW2. When other countries might have not done so. China basically reciprocated that gesture.

Also, why stop at the Qing empire's borders? China held Korea and Indochina at separate points in its history as well.

However the situation is totally different with regards to Taiwan and China still claims the region for several reasons including historic and because it is the last bastion of the Nationalists.
 
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Xizor

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
localizer said:
If the US forces TSMC to work for the US and not for China, you’re looking at possible war.



The day nukes no longer become an issue.
In the face of climate change, China might just take all of Russia one day.
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No,it wont. China does not need to. Russia isn't toxic or poisonous. Russia can be trusted, relatively speaking. All around China are selfish interests.
gelgoog said:
Nice joke. China has signed a treaty with Russia after 1991 to settle their borders. Unlike in the Qing era the borders are along natural boundaries like mountains and rivers and are hence much more defensible. This means it is much cheaper to defend the territory.

The fact that China did not push the Russians into a much harder deal, since this was signed just after the Soviet Union collapsed, tells a lot about China's attitudes towards the rest of the world compared with the US's. I think this was facilitated by the fact the Soviets returned Manchukuo after capturing it from Japan in WW2. When other countries might have not done so. China basically reciprocated that gesture.

Also, why stop at the Qing empire's borders? China held Korea and Indochina at separate points in its history as well.

However the situation is totally different with regards to Taiwan and China still claims the region for several reasons including historic and because it is the last bastion of the Nationalists.
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Thank you. Spared me an essay.
I still don't understand why there are voices who'd want a transfer of territory from Russia to China. I don't see China benefiting at all from any of that. It is best that nations break loose from the shackles and allure of their past glory days as an empire. The age of empires have died a good death and from it's ashes have risen the age of Superpowers.
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Xsizor said:
No,it wont. China does not need to. Russia isn't toxic or poisonous. Russia can be trusted, relatively speaking. All around China are selfish interests.

Thank you. Spared me an essay.
I still don't understand why there are voices who'd want a transfer of territory from Russia to China. I don't see China benefiting at all from any of that. It is best that nations break loose from the shackles and allure of their past glory days as an empire. The age of empires have died a good death and from it's ashes have risen the age of Superpowers.
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From a practical perspective, China already has lots of empty grasslands.

Why would it want frozen Siberia? China can just buy the resources in Russia.
 
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tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
Can gain some inside info Trump's mentality by looking at Trump back down and blinking first when Iran challenges US militarily, shooting down the drone, bombing of pipeline and attacking oil tankers.
Trump is a coward, he will act like a bully if you limit yourself only in the Trade realm. As soon as you read to fight militarily , he will blink first. NK is also similar case. I have a feeling if China continue to avoid direct military confrontation, Trump and US will continue to act like a bully against China
Russia also directly challenge US militarily, and US stay away from it militarily
 
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Deleted member 13312

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AndrewS said:
From a practical perspective, China already has lots of empty grasslands.

Why would it want frozen Siberia? China can just buy the resources in Russia.
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It would not be Siberia that China would covet most if it was asked seriously, but rather the southern most tip of Russia that touches the Pacific Ocean. I am talking about the Port City of Vladivostok or the surrounding areas.
From a Geographical and Economical perspective it is a no brainer, additional access to the Sea of Japan will only serve to increase trade and commercialism for China from Russia, the Koreas and Japan. Whereas security wise it would grant an additional layer of protection for China's ports and bases westward of the Korean Peninsular. This is compounded by the fact that the area around Vladivostok are the only territories in Russia which are relatively ice free year around, it is by no chance or accident that Russia based it's Pacific Fleet in Vladivostok. Vice versa, a Chinese military base in that area would serve as a important intelligence gathering site and security buffer against Japan and US bases in the area.

From a historical perspective it is not hard to see how some in China might see that area as rightfully theirs, as it was a mere 100 or so years when Imperial Russia annexed it from the Qing Dynasty.

But then again this issue could be resolved more easily in China's favour if it just takes a part of North Korea's eastern coast as it's own in the event of a collapse of government. which is a far more likely prospect and less likely to result in a major conflict between nuclear powers.
 
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Just4Fun

Junior Member
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
China should keep its balance or otherwise the US will further push it into a Cold War like situation where the world would be partitioned into two economic blocks.
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There is no danger of Cold War between the US and China in current world, no matter how hard the US is trying. If there ever were a Cold War today, it would be one between the US and the rest of world, or the Belt & Road countries. Why? Because Trump's "America First" policy is treating everyone in the world as a second class citizen, and everyone hates to be treated as a second class citizen. This basically declares that there will be no US bloc, or Western bloc any more. This statement has been confirmed by the fact that even the UK, the staunchest US ally, refuses to go with Washington's Huawei Ban, leaving alone the fact that many NATO countries, Italy, Germany, France, the UK, Canada, Australia, to name the few, are China-led bank, AIIB, members, and they chose to join AIIB against strong US objection.
 
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Arkboy

New Member
Registered Member
Just4Fun said:
There is no danger of Cold War between the US and China in current world, no matter how hard the US is trying. If there ever were a Cold War today, it would be one between the US and the rest of world, or the Belt & Road countries. Why? Because Trump's "America First" policy is treating everyone in the world as a second class citizen, and everyone hates to be treated as a second class citizen. This basically declares that there will be no US bloc, or Western bloc any more. This statement has been confirmed by the fact that even the UK, the staunchest US ally, refuses to go with Washington's Huawei Ban, leaving alone the fact that many NATO countries, Italy, Germany, France, the UK, Canada, Australia, to name the few, are China-led bank, AIIB, members, and they chose to join AIIB against strong US objection.
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I agree. But part of this could very well be that the US no longer has a choice. No matter how powerful a nation is, when they've sanctioned everyone and there is hardly anyone left to sanction, they've effectively sanctioned themselves. More and more this is how it is playing out.

The dollar hasn't been backed by gold since Nixon told everyone Fort Knox was empty. The past several decades America has been printing easy money, and living an unsustainable lifestyle and bragging to the world (indirectly via Hollywood and whatnot) of its immense wealth and riches that were really just borrowed on the world's credit card aka the petrodollar hegemony and the arrangement it has with OPEC nations to use the might of the US military to protect (or is it coerce?) them, allowing (forcing) them to continue to export their oil in US dollars, hence propping up the dollar and allowing America to print free money whilst diluting the savings of the rest of the world... This American "TAX" on the globe has gotten to a point where the US has to become increasingly aggresive to even its allies just to keep propping up the 23 trillion and growing national debt with no end in sight... When Saddam misbehaved back in 2002 and started exporting iraq oil in EURO, then Cheney /Bush said "WMD", blamed Saddam for 911 and the rest is history. Venezula and Iran recently started moving away from the dollar, and hence Pompeous is doing his darn hardest for regime change... Bottom line is the American Empire can no longer hold it together and its splitting apart at the seams... This is why America is increasingly lashing out at everyone and not making any friends... it doesn't have a choice.

Back then US opened up with China in order to contain USSR. The situation is different now. America views China as its greatest long term geopolitical threat (which is true), but what is it going to do? Be friends with Russia again? It cannot literally afford to do that... It is even squeezing the smaller nations now for its very survival, so the house of cards is going to implode soon and its just a matter of time.

The question is will America accept a peaceful decline or will it use measures to make sure if it cannot stay on top then it will take the rest of the world down with it.
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
now I read
Beijing can’t let US play games with Iranian energy
Source:Global Times Published: 2019/6/23 22:33:40
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As Washington and Tehran edge toward a flashpoint on Monday when new sanctions are scheduled to take effect, will the US use the sanctions as a way to pressure China to increase its energy imports from the US, and will the US-China trade war be a factor that determines US strategy on Iran?

US President Donald Trump said over the weekend that he would impose new sanctions on Iran, several days before the
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summit in Japan at which Chinese President Xi Jinping is likely to meet Trump. The US may try to maximize its interests by tying its Iran and China strategies together.

In August 2018, China announced retaliatory tariffs on 5,207 US products including liquefied natural gas (LNG). Due to trade war fears, some Chinese enterprises reduced energy imports from the US while showing more interest in Middle East energy exporters. According to data from the Gas Exporting Countries Forum, an international governmental organization, Iran ranks first in the world in terms of natural gas reserves and third in terms of oil reserves. Sanctions on Iranian energy will create opportunities for US energy exports.

Trump over the past few years touted his "America First energy policy" with an effort to boost LNG exports. A clean energy revolution is taking place across the US, which is seeking buyers for its surplus energy.

If the US succeeds in driving Iranian oil exports to zero, or the energy transmission networks in the Middle East suffer a blow from a possible war between the US and Iran, China may have to reduce its dependence on energy exports from the Middle East, especially Iran, and reconsider buying US energy products. That is perhaps exactly what the US wants to see.

Even if China's energy imports from Iran are cut off, China will be very cautious about turning to US sources. The ongoing trade war has made it increasingly urgent for China to cut the links between its energy sector and those in the US. China must reduce its dependence on US energy to safeguard its energy security, which is always a matter of national security.

A war between the US and Iran will be a catastrophe for the global economy. China firmly opposes war and hopes that all parties concerned respect Iran's reasonable requests. China is willing to work with Russia, India, European countries and related parties to find a peaceful solution. At the least, China has reason to prevent the US from gaining benefits from a possible war and economic sanctions against Iran.
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