Trade War with China

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now I read (actually before making the above post)
President Trump announces members of official delegation to China for trade talks
Xinhua| 2018-05-01 04:50:10
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U.S. President Donald Trump on Monday announced that an official delegation from the United States will travel to China to discuss the bilateral trade relationship beginning Thursday.

The members of the U.S. delegation includes U.S. Ambassador to China Terry Branstad, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, and U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) Robert Lighthizer, the White House said in a statement.

The delegation also includes Larry Kudlow , assistant to the president for Economic Policy, Peter Navarro, assistant to the president for Trade and Manufacturing Policy, as well as Everett Eissenstat, deputy assistant to the president for International Economic Affairs.

China values the willingness the United States has shown to address the current trade friction through dialogue and communication, Chinese Premier Li Keqiang said last week.

"There is no winner in trade conflict, which will not only affect the recovery of the world economy but also the global industrial chain," Li said, adding that solutions can only be found when both sides sit down for dialogue.

In an interview aired on Monday by Fox Business Network, Mnuchin said he was "cautiously optimistic" about the upcoming trade talks with China.

The Trump administration has recently threatened to impose tariffs on up to 150 billion U.S. dollars of Chinese imports, while China has vowed to retaliate against U.S. exports if Washington moves forward with the tariffs.

Trade analysts have warned that unilateralism and trade protectionism will inevitably harm others without benefiting oneself as the global economy is deeply integrated.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
The result of consulting firm Trade Partnership Worldwide LLC study on the impact of tariff, for every job gain 4 will be lost!
So much for the idea that "a little pain” in the short term but better off in the longterm", and a new study shows U.S. agricultural workers could be hurt the most.
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Trump's China Tariffs Risk Costing U.S. Jobs, New Study Shows
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Mark Niquette 15 hours ago
Survey finds China tariffs will cost 134,000 US jobs

President Donald Trump says his trade actions
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"a little pain” in the short term, and a new study shows U.S. agricultural workers could be hurt the most.

The tariffs on $50 billion in Chinese imports that Trump has proposed, plus promised retaliatory duties by China, would reduce U.S. gross domestic product by $2.9 billion and cost almost 134,000 U.S. jobs, according to a study commissioned by the Consumer Technology Association and the National Retail Federation, which oppose the tariffs. That includes more than 67,000 jobs in agriculture.

States that Trump won in 2016 would lose about 77,500 positions, the study found.

As Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and other administration officials
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this week for trade talks, the study shows the estimated impact on the American economy if the tariffs are imposed and a trade war ensues, the groups said.

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“We must resolve this dispute without resorting to job-killing tariffs and retaliation,” National Retail Federation President and Chief Executive Officer Matthew Shay said in a statement.

The Trump administration has targeted more than 1,300 Chinese products, from televisions and backhoes to ingredients for insulin, for tariffs of 25 percent in response to complaints about China’s theft of intellectual property.

Threats and Counter-Threats
That prompted China to promise retaliatory duties on soybeans, aircraft and other products. Trump then ordered consideration of an additional $100 billion in tariffs that the administration hasn’t yet identified.

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The study, completed by the Washington-based consulting firm Trade Partnership Worldwide LLC, estimated the effect on employment under different scenarios. The most probable scenario has the U.S. imposing $50 billion tariffs with promised Chinese retaliation, according to the study.

Under that scenario, some sectors, including machinery and electronics manufacturing, would add jobs as reduced imports bolster U.S. production, the study found. But for every job gained, more than four would be lost during the first years after tariffs were imposed as higher prices reduce consumer spending and farmers in particular are hammered by Chinese duties, the study said.

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“Rising costs on farmers, manufacturers and service providers isn’t the answer,” Gary Shapiro, chief executive and president of the Consumer Technology Association, said in a statement. “It shows protectionism will weaken America.”

Ross and other administration officials have downplayed the effect of the tariffs on the U.S. economy. Trump has acknowledged that American markets and farmers could face “a little pain” but that the country would be better off in the long term.

“Short term, you may have to take some problems,” Trump said during an April 28 rally in Michigan’s Washington Township. “Long term, you’re going to be so happy.”

That White House has to prove that assumption, said David French, senior vice president of government relations at the National Retail Federation.

“Our view is that tariffs and trade wars are a measurable loser for the U.S. economy,” French said.

The Retail Federation, Consumer Technology Association and other trade groups have been working together and separately to lobby the administration to strike a deal with China that avoids tariffs, and otherwise to exclude specific products from the list. Companies are making requests to have products removed or
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, with a public hearing set for May 15 in Washington.

“The best thing we can all do is just try every avenue and eventually, something hopefully will stick,” said Sage Chandler, vice president for international trade at the Consumer Technology Association.

While it’s a good sign the U.S. is talking with China and it’s appropriate to address concerns about China’s trade practices, the administration’s proposed approach is not the answer, French said.

“It’s the methods, it’s the tactics, it’s the uncertainty, it’s the impact on our supply chains that we’re trying to communicate, and I’m just not convinced they’re listening at this point,” he said.
 
America’s critical minerals problem has gone from bad to worse
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no, I didn't confuse threads:
It is no secret that the United States has a critical minerals problem. As the Pentagon’s top acquisition official Ellen Lord
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, “We have an amazing amount of
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.” Lord called the findings of a forthcoming report on the defense industrial base “quite alarming,” and noted that China is America’s “sole source for rare earth minerals.”

According to the United States Geological Survey, the United States
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for at least 20 minerals and has little or no capacity to mine, refine, and process its own minerals from start to finish. As a recent executive order on critical minerals makes clear, this “
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” poses a significant national security risk.

Although President Trump has taken great strides to address this national security threat—through executive orders and trade investigations—it’s time for Congress and the administration to take a whole-of-market approach to critical minerals and to enact policies that will spur innovation at every step in the minerals supply chain. This should start with mine permitting reform and investment in promising materials technologies and processes.


Critical minerals are the building blocks for military equipment. From minerals that are ubiquitous in the supply chain, such as copper and steel, to those that are very specialized—like rare earth elements and beryllium—America’s technological superiority hinges on maintaining reliable access to key materials. Without access to such minerals, our precision-guided missiles will not hit their targets, our aircraft and submarines will sit unfinished in depots, and our war-fighters will be left without the equipment they need to complete their missions.

Unfortunately, America’s critical minerals problem has gone from bad to worse. The nation’s only domestic rare earth producer was
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in 2015 after China suddenly restricted exports and subsequently flooded the market with rare earth elements. Adding insult to injury, the mine was then
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, a Chinese-backed consortium that includes Shenghe Resources Holding Co. Now, according to
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, this same mine is exporting critical minerals to a processing plant in China—because the United States cannot process or refine these materials at commercial scale. Without a dramatic change in minerals policies, the United States will not be able to minimize the economic damage that will come when China decides to leverage its minerals monopolies against us.

The first step to a whole-of-market approach to spur innovation in minerals production is removing regulatory hurdles that dissuade would-be investors. Most notably, the United States must accelerate its
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. The current seven to 10 year timeline is simply untenable. Australia and Canada adhere to similarly stringent environmental guidelines, yet maintain permitting processes that average just two years. The United States’ mine permitting process should not take five times as long. This easily fixed regulatory problem will go a long way toward attracting new entrants into the minerals supply chain.

The Pentagon must also focus on existing Department of Defense programs designed to support the U.S. defense industrial base. Each branch of service has a ManTech program intended to improve the productivity and responsiveness of the industrial base and to enable manufacturing technologies. In the president’s fiscal 2019 budget request, the Army, Navy, and Air Force are only requesting approximately $60 million each for ManTech. Furthermore, the Pentagon only requested $38 million for Defense Production Act (DPA) purchases—a defense-wide program focused on expanding and restoring domestic production capacity. This is down from the $63 million requested for DPA in FY2018. With a $700 billion defense budget, dedicating just 0.025 percent of the budget to the next generation of manufacturing technologies is nowhere near enough to catch up to China and shore up domestic capabilities.

Congress should not only make funding ManTech and DPA projects a priority, but should also ensure that these funds will fill vulnerabilities in the defense industrial base. Building resiliency and operational capacity throughout the supply chain requires investing in more than just the finished product to include the many tools, technologies, and processes that get us there. With a calculated and strategic focus on filling these gaps in the supply chain, American companies can rise to the task.

Lastly, the administration must continue to fight against unfair trade practices that have bankrupted American mining companies and left us dependent on China for minerals essential to the defense industrial base. The United States must make clear it will not tolerate these practices, and will take a strong stance against continued, aggressive trade actions.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Via In4ser China need to secure the chip technology and ARM is the only licensor that allow China to use their technology So this JV with ARM is very important because almost all of China's chip is based on ARM
ARM is now own by Softbank a Japanese/Korean company because the owner Masayoshi Son is korean
Arm's China joint venture ensures access to vital technology - Nikkei Asian Review
MICHELLE CHAN and CHENG TING-FANG, Nikkei staff writers


HONG KONG/TAIPEI -- The China joint venture by chip designer Arm Holdings and Chinese investors has big goals: to surpass its British parent in revenue by 2025 and ensure easier access to critical semiconductor technology for the world's No. 2 economy, according to people familiar with the matter.

A document obtained by the Nikkei Asian Review from an industry source familiar with the venture -- known as Arm mini China -- projects revenue of $1.89 billion by 2025, topping parent Arm's fiscal 2016 sales of $1.68 billion, thanks to the booming market for connected devices.

Arm mini China looks to achieve net profit of $30 million for 2018 on sales of around $398 million, the document said. The venture, now valued at $1.52 billion, plans an initial public offering on the mainland as early as 2021.

Nikkei first reported on Tuesday that the Chinese venture began operations in April and would take over all business for SoftBank Group subsidiary Arm Holdings involving local partners. Chinese and external investors, including Beijing-sponsored entities, control 51% of Arm mini China while the British parent owns 49%.

SoftBank bought Arm in 2016 in a deal worth $32 billion. SoftBank and Arm did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Hopu-Arm Innovation Fund, also known as Hou An Innovation Fund, will be a crucial stakeholder. The fund's backers include sovereign wealth fund China Investment Corp., the Beijing-owned Silk Road Fund, Singaporean sovereign wealth fund Temasek Holdings, Shenzhen government-owned conglomerate Shum Yip Group and Hopu Investment Management, according to China's Ministry of Science and Technology.

Chinese internet company Baidu, China Merchants Bank, Bank of China Group Investment and venture capital firm Sequoia also are prominent investors, the document obtained by Nikkei said.

The venture currently involves overseas investors, the document said, but the terms request that backers who wish to transfer shares after the three-year locking period sell only to Chinese investors and not American entities or Arm's competitors. Arm and Hou An inked an investment agreement Sept. 29, the document said.

Beijing achieves a big victory with the creation of Arm mini China, as the parent ranks among the world's most influential chip technology providers. Arm's intellectual property is used in 90% of mobile devices globally. Companies like Apple, Samsung Electronics, Qualcomm, Broadcom, MediaTek and most developers worldwide require Arm's blueprints to design their own chips for mobile gadgets, tablets and various connected devices.

Arm's key Chinese clients and partners included Huawei chip unit Hisilicon Technologies, Unigroup Spreadtrum & RDA, Xiaomi, Fuzhou Rockchip Electronics, Semiconductor Manufacturing International and many other chip startups. Arm licenses technology to these developers and charges royalties after they ship their products.

Crucially, the Chinese venture can receive transfers of intellectual property now controlled by Arm, as well as training and technical support from Arm engineers, according to the document and people familiar with the matter. The joint venture could help Chinese developers secure sources of technology previously controlled by a foreign chip intellectual property provider.

To license technology from Arm Holdings, companies had to go through Arm's American team, a person familiar with the plan said.

"That somehow worries a lot of Chinese chip designers," the person said. "They are wary whether they could always get good support. But with this joint venture, which is now a Chinese company, they are expected to secure sources of Arm's fundamental IPs that are foundations of their chip products."

China has realized the importance of controlling a competitive homegrown semiconductor industry in order to slash reliance on foreign suppliers ever since the leaks from American whistleblower Edward Snowden in 2013 unveiled a massive U.S. surveillance program.

The current Chinese trade tensions with Washington and the U.S. ban on exports to smartphone maker ZTE provide even stronger incentives for Beijing to swiftly boost self-sufficiency in chips, which serve as the brains of every electronic device and have strong national security implications.

Allen Wu, Arm's executive vice president and president of Arm Greater China, will serve as chairman and CEO of Arm mini China for five years, the document said.

Arm mini China intends to add 1,000 staffers in Shenzhen, where the entity incorporated, on top of the 300 employees currently in the country. A 30-member research and development team based in the Taiwanese city of Hsinchu will offer exclusive support for the venture, according to the plan. Hsinchu is home to the world's biggest contract chipmaker, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co.

China was the largest semiconductor market last year, reaching $131.5 billion, the World Semiconductor Trade Statistics organization said. But the $24.7 billion in revenue generated by mainland China-based chipmakers accounted for just 4.9% of the semiconductor industry value chain last year, trailing rivals from the U.S., South Korea, Taiwan, Japan and Europe, according to IEK, a market research division of the Industrial Technology Research Institute based in Hsinchu.

"Once the Arm China joint venture lists on a Chinese domestic stock exchange, we think it could offer a much higher price-earnings ratio than before Arm was acquired by SoftBank, and that should give SoftBank's [founder and CEO] Masayoshi Son great investment returns," said longtime market watcher Wang Yanghui, secretary general of Shanghai-based Mobile China Alliance.

"For Arm, to take in China state-backed investors will help it secure a massive market and the next wave of growth opportunities amid a slowing mobile market."

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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
From Asia times
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Chip giant ARM finds local partner for China operations
Joint venture ARM mini China to provide integrated circuit technology to Chinese chip companies and boost global sales
By ASIA TIMES STAFF MAY 3, 2018 5:36 AM (UTC+8)

ARM Holdings, a British multinational semiconductor and software design company, has decided to transfer its China operations to a newly established joint venture, ARM mini China,
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reported.

A source told The Paper that the local partner of ARM mini China is the Houan Innovation Fund led by Hopu Investment Management Co. Ltd.

It is reported that its Chinese partner is holding a 51% stake in the joint venture, while ARM holds the rest. Also, it is said that the new joint venture plans to list on the A-share market, and its IPO plan may be quickly approved by the regulator.

According to ARM, the main intention of establishing a joint venture in China is to authorize the intellectual property and provide integrated circuit technology to Chinese chip companies, so as to achieve global sales via these Chinese producers.

Meanwhile, ARM will support indigenous innovations in China. ARM also has exclusive rights to new products developed by the joint venture.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
I think they will double down on semiconductor investment

China’s chip industry sees rapid Q1 growth

Source:Global Times Published: 2018/5/2 20:58:40
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Two domestic firms ranked among top 8 globally
China's chip-making industry has seen rapid growth in the first quarter of 2018, amid the rising performance of Chinese semiconductor foundries in the global market.

According to data released by China's
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(MIIT) on Wednesday, in the first quarter of 2018, the value of China's electronic information manufacturing industry grew by 12.5 percent year-on-year, faster than the growth rate of all above-scale industries by 6.7 percentage points.

The number of integrated circuits (ICs) produced reached 39.99 billion in 2017, an increase of 15.2 percent compared with 2016, and the number of electronic components reached 1.128 trillion, an increase of 22.7 percent year-on-year, said the MIIT.

Data released by global industry consultancy IC Insights in April also showed that two Chinese mainland-based semiconductor foundries, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC) and Huahong Group, both based in Shanghai, ranked among the top eight foundries in the world in 2017, and the latter saw a year-on-year increase in sales of 18 percent, the highest of all.

SMIC, the largest foundry in the Chinese mainland, saw a year-on-year increase in sales volume of 6 percent in 2017, reaching $31.01 billion, ranking fifth among all of the top eight foundries in the world, said the consultancy company.

Huahong Group saw its sales volume reach $13.95 billion, taking it to seventh place compared with eighth place in 2016. It also showed the fastest growth among the top eight market players.

Demand for foundry services in China has been surging in recent years with the rise of fabless IC manufacturing, in which companies design chips and outsource production, or fabrication, to a specialist supplier.

Since 2010, all the fastest-growing suppliers in the global fabless IC market have come from China, and out of the 50 largest fabless IC suppliers in the world in 2017, 10 of them are Chinese companies, said IC Insights.

Some of the largest global suppliers, including TSMC, GlobalFoundries, UMC, Powerchip, and, most recently, TowerJazz, have made plans to either open or expand production facilities in the Chinese mainland in the next few years.

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) continued to lead the global IC foundry market in 2017, with sales of $32.2 billion, five times more than those of second-ranked US-based GlobalFoundries.

The top eight major foundry firms took up 88 percent of the $62.3 billion worldwide foundry market, the same level as in 2016, and this market share is expected to continue in the future, said IC Insights.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
The challenge is that everybody is moving forward. The current players (US, Japan, SK) are moving forward as China is trying to catch up. Unless China moves faster, China can not catch up. There is no reason to believe the current players will slow down. And the key here is that, China can not wait for domestic substitutions to be ready. ZTE can not wait for some domestic electro-optical component to be ready to build 4G or 5G network in China or any other market. If that substitution takes 4 years to be ready, that will mean they loose 4 years, by then 5G is out, 6G is there. Waiting for "in-house" to be ready will equate to killing ZTE and Huawei.

The reality is that Chinese vendors like ZTE or Huawei have to use whatever components available while in the mean time Chinese component makers playing catch-up. And when ZTE and Huawei does pick the Chinese components, these components MUST be on par to their foreign counterparts, not necessarily better but close enough to not make much performance difference.

Think about Chinese aircraft engine development, it is the same.

Huawei already makes its own SOC. ZTE is thinking about it, but hasn't, and I believe that what previously deferred ZTE from doing this is because of Qualcomm sweetening its deals. LG was also planning to make it own chips, and so did Xiaomi, but I guess Qualcomm also sweetened its deals to them too. After this, ZTE and Xiaomi might look again at making their own chips. And ARM is sensing an opportunity here, which is why they are setting up a branch in China. Huawei's Kirin SOCs are faithful followers of ARM core and GPU designs, unlike Samsung, Qualcomm and Apple that designs their own cores and GPUs now, only licensing the instruction sets.

I don't know about ZTE, but my personal experience with Huawei phones and tablets are just pure awesome.

Maybe in the future I like to give Xiaomi a shot.
 

hkbc

Junior Member
Huawei already makes its own SOC. ZTE is thinking about it, but hasn't, and I believe that what previously deferred ZTE from doing this is because of Qualcomm sweetening its deals. LG was also planning to make it own chips, and so did Xiaomi, but I guess Qualcomm also sweetened its deals to them too. After this, ZTE and Xiaomi might look again at making their own chips. And ARM is sensing an opportunity here, which is why they are setting up a branch in China. Huawei's Kirin SOCs are faithful followers of ARM core and GPU designs, unlike Samsung, Qualcomm and Apple that designs their own cores and GPUs now, only licensing the instruction sets.

I don't know about ZTE, but my personal experience with Huawei phones and tablets are just pure awesome.

Maybe in the future I like to give Xiaomi a shot.

Technically Huawei (it's HISilicon subsidiary) only designs it's own SoCs, based off ARM licenses, the ICs themselves are built by TSMC. However, China seems more than capable of designing/manufacturing it's own processors and architectures like those used in its supercomputers, furthermore, it has access via Zhaoxin to x86 compatible technology which should be free from US sanctions (the underlying IP is licensed from VIA, a Taiwanese company). It's the semi-conductor fabrication/process side that China is currently behind, foundries are very capital intensive and the manufacturing equipment comes from a small set of specialist manufacturers.

The recent announcement by ARM of a Chinese holding company/JV is a neat way of bypassing US interference and a rebuke to the notion that China forces companies to hand over it's IP, the JV is naked preemptive capitalism! ZTE, Xiaomi etc can freely license ARM's IP, this will hurt Qualcomm since it will see a large section of it's customer base disappear, forever, but the firms will still need fabrication capacity. There are plenty of non-US foundries, in an all out "trade war" whether the profits gained will out weigh potential US reprisals is the key question.

This "trade war" doesn't appear to be a real trade war, since the current US administration seems more than happy to cut its nose to spite its face in its tactics to date, but more a thinly veiled attempt to use everything short of war to re-assert/re-impose American dominance, even at the cost of trashing America's 'global brand equity' carefully curated since the end of WWII.
 
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