Trade War with China

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Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
An old king still has power, no denying that. Comparing the strength of the current USA and China, the USA does have an advantage over China for now. However, every year that goes by the gap is narrowing. Similar to a king becoming older and isn't as strong compared to his youth. Once the king reaches a point where he can no longer rule the kingdom, the crown will go to someone else (most likely to a younger prince). The king in his current state is aware of what's going on but he refuses to step down peacefully. Hence he's taking steps to eliminate anyone that might succeed him. Using this analogy to explain the current USA-China trade war makes it more clear for everyone.
Another term for this would be the "Thucydides Trap" - when a rising power causes fear in an established power which escalates toward war.. It has happened before in Ancient Greece and in the prelude before WW1. What's happening now is just a continuation of that.
The US is much more than a nation. It is the leader of english speaking nations. The US power should not be seen as isolated. It draws strength and support from its close allies too. I don't think China can match that in 50 years unless major allies jump ships. China can match US only if it gets powerful countries to give it the leader badge.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
The US is much more than a nation. It is the leader of english speaking nations. The US power should not be seen as isolated. It draws strength and support from its close allies too. I don't think China can match that in 50 years unless major allies jump ships. China can match US only if it gets powerful countries to give it the leader badge.

I don't think that China will copy or mimic US style of leading the world If anything there is serious study right now to return to what work for China in the past Having allies is more burden then what is worth eg US spend so much money maintaining bases all over the world and getting into conflict because of her allies, Iraq war etc. The consequence of it is imperial overstretch spending necessary amount of money for defense
I think you are reading too much of western press that is extolling American allies and lack of it for China as sign of strength.

In the past China dominate east asia without stationing a single soldier in the her vassal state or get involve in their domestic politic. They do defend their vassal state on occasion eg Imjin war against JapanBut in general China does not impose her will on other. Instead she lead by example and thru the success of her culture, commerce and wealth attract other nation to follow her path
This is how we do it if you want to follow it is ok if you don't it is ok too

Here is the vision of China political idea(Weltanschauung) from Yan Xuetong aTsinghua professor It is a long discourse skip it to minute 12:54 and 28:34 minute
 
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zealotaiur485

New Member
Registered Member
The US is much more than a nation. It is the leader of english speaking nations. The US power should not be seen as isolated. It draws strength and support from its close allies too. I don't think China can match that in 50 years unless major allies jump ships. China can match US only if it gets powerful countries to give it the leader badge.

In 50 years, the world would have already become multipolar and the US would no longer be the only superpower in town.
The world is much bigger than just the US+allies - there are over 190 countries around the globe.
People (regardless of culture or nationality) respect power. Once China is the #1 economy, there will be plenty of countries that
want to hop aboard the bandwagon :)

Like I said in my previous comment, time is on China's side. Every year the gap between the USA and China is narrowing. And China is the one that's going full steam ahead..
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Oh and btw, the world needs a sheriff to police its many nations with much scores to be settled. I don't think China should interest itself with doing such a dirty job.( I honestly don't think China has what it takes regarding both wealth,time and conviction). It is in China's interest to have another country to do the dirty housekeeping for China.
This. No. The world doesn't need a police. Lasting peace doesn't happen when an issue is forced to be dragged on and on without any truly satisfactory resolution. That just prolongs and festers hatred. When the problem is not solvable by negotiations, and often it is not, lasting peace can be made when you let 2 sides fight it out and one side kills the other. Then there will truly be peace... China's not interested in this job; no one should be allowed to have this job because everyone is biased and corruptible. People should be left to solve their own problems mano a mano and if not everyone survives the solution, that's the true price for peace and harmony.

And I know this sounds like my condoning murder but I don't know of any conflict where people will not accept submission and want to slaughter cowering women and children. People only want to kill those who hatefully insist on killing them and declare that death is better than defeat. If that's the case, then hop to it. When everyone like that is dead or victorious, there will be peace.
 
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localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
This. No. The world doesn't need a police. Lasting peace doesn't happen when an issue is forced to be dragged on and on without any truly satisfactory resolution. That just prolongs and festers hatred. When the problem is not solvable by negotiations, and often it is not, lasting peace can be made when you let 2 sides fight it out and one side kills the other. Then there will truly be peace... China's not interested in this job; no one should be allowed to have this job because everyone is biased and corruptible. People should be left to solve their own problems mano a mano and if not everyone survives the solution, that's the true price for peace and harmony.

And I know this sounds like my condoning murder but I don't know of any conflict where people will not accept submission and want to slaughter cowering women and children. People only want to kill those who hatefully insist on killing them and declare that death is better than defeat. If that's the case, then hop to it. When everyone like that is dead or victorious, there will be peace.
That’s not just your view. That’s US foreign policy.

And at this point I still think Trump winning would actually serve China’s interests more in the long run. He’s waking up the Chinese people to the reality of the world and make them stronger.
 
now I read
Chinese vice premier urges China-U.S. cooperation, vows no compromise on major principles
Xinhua| 2019-05-11 23:32:56
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Chinese Vice Premier Liu He said Friday that cooperation is the only right choice for China and the United States, but China will not compromise on major issues of principle.

China-U.S. relations are of great importance, Liu said in a group interview with Chinese media after the conclusion of the 11th round of high-level economic and trade consultations between the world's top two economies, which took place on Thursday and Friday in Washington.

Economic and trade relations serve as the ballast and propeller of the overall China-U.S. relationship, and matter not only to bilateral ties, but also to world peace and prosperity, added Liu, also a member of the Political Bureau of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee.

Cooperation is the only right choice for the two sides, but it has to be based on principles, said the vice premier, who heads the Chinese side of the China-U.S. comprehensive economic dialogue.

China, he stressed, will never make concessions on major issues of principle.

The Chinese delegation came to Washington for the latest round of talks with sincerity, and held candid and constructive exchanges with the U.S. side, Liu said, adding that the two sides agreed to continue to push forward the consultations.

China strongly opposes U.S. tariff hikes, which are harmful not only to China and the United States, but to the world at large, and China will have to take necessary countermeasures, he added.

Stressing that any agreement must be equal and mutually beneficial, Liu said that the two sides have reached important consensus on many aspects, but there remain three core concerns of China that must be addressed.

The first is to remove all the additional tariffs, he said, adding that the levy of those tariffs is the starting point of the ongoing bilateral trade dispute, and must be totally revoked if the two sides were to reach a deal.

The second is that the amount of purchases should be realistic, he said, adding that the two sides reached consensus on the volume in Argentina, and should not change it randomly.

The third is to improve the balance of the wording of the text, he said, adding that every country has its dignity, the text must be balanced, and more discussions are needed on some critical issues.

Noting that it is just normal that there have been some ups and downs in bilateral consultations since last year, Liu pointed out that it is irresponsible to casually accuse one party of "backtracking" while the two sides are still in the process of negotiation.

As for China, the vice premier said the most important thing is to focus on its own business.

China enjoys huge domestic market demand, the implementation of the supply-side reform will comprehensively boost the competitiveness of Chinese products and enterprises, and there is still ample room for fiscal and monetary policy manoeuvres, he said, adding the Chinese economic prospect is very optimistic.

Liu pointed out that it is a good thing for a major country to encounter some twists and turns in its development, as they can serve as an ability test.

Under the strong leadership of the CPC Central Committee with Xi Jinping at the core, as long as the Chinese people have firm confidence and make joint efforts, China is not afraid of any difficulties, and will certainly be able to maintain the good momentum of sustained and sound economic development, he added.
 
now I read
12:33, 12-May-2019
China Mobile says FCC's license application denial is unreasonable
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China Mobile made an official announcement on their website on May 11 after the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC) barred their application from the U.S. market, suggesting the U.S. government is now putting "unreasonable pressure" on Chinese companies.

The company said the FCC's decision is against market principles and the trend of economic globalization since there is no apparent evidence to support FCC's action after an investigation that lasted over seven years.

China's Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Geng Shuang on May 10 also urged the U.S. to abide by market economy principles, stop the practice of featuring national security in every issue, and stop the unjustified oppression of Chinese enterprises.

The FCC's ban on China Mobile comes under the pressure from the Trump Administration, according to Bloomberg.

So far, tariffs on 200 billion U.S. dollars' worth of Chinese goods have risen to 25 percent from 10 percent starting on Friday.

Donald Trump also threatened to impose 25 percent tariffs on an additional 325 billion U.S. dollars' worth of Chinese goods "shortly," saying the trade deal with China is moving "too slowly" as Beijing "tries to renegotiate."

"The move carried out by the FCC is part of the 'Tech Cold War', and the reason behind it is that the U.S. security evaluation system on Chinese technologies has been through radical changes", Zhu Feng, Dean of the institute of international relations at Nanjing University said.

"The supposed-to-be normal commercial bid has been misinterpreted as a 'China Threat'. They should provide an open environment, but what they do now clearly don't match with their words of offering a fair competition market principle," Zhu added

After the unanimous vote on China Mobile, FCC Chairman Ajit Pai also said that the agency is “looking at” the authorizations granted earlier to China Telecom and China Unicom, the other two major telecom operators in China. But he declined to comment on what the investigation process would be.
 
now I read
Donald Trump warns China to reach a trade deal now, or face a ‘far worse’ one if I get re-elected
  • US President accuses China of playing for time in the hope he will lose to a ‘very weak’ Democrat in next year’s election
Updated: 4:02pm, 12 May, 2019
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US President Donald Trump has accused China of playing for time in trade talks and warned he will offer a “far worse” deal if he wins next year’s presidential election.

Trump was speaking after a lacklustre round of talks in Washington following his decision to escalate the trade war by raising tariffs on Chinese goods.

“I think that China felt they were being beaten so badly in the recent negotiation that they may as well wait around for the next election,” Trump tweeted on Saturday, adding that China hoped to “get lucky” with a win from a Democratic in the 2020 presidential election.

“Would be wise for [China] to act now, but love collecting BIG TARIFFS,” he said.

On Friday the US raised tariffs on US$200 billion of Chinese goods from 10 per cent to 25 per cent.

When he announced plans for the tariff hike last Monday, Trump complained that trade talks had moved too slowly, and said China had been trying to renegotiate previously agreed positions.

Tong Jiadong, a professor of international trade at Nankai University in Tianjin, said the trade war was a “double-edged sword” for the US.

“China is becoming increasingly less dependent on the US for strategic products,” said Tong. “Domestically, the confidence of US businesses and citizens [in the trade war] is limited.”

Some Democratic presidential candidates, such as former vice-president Joe Biden, have showed a more dovish attitude toward China.

Earlier this month Biden said China was “not competition for us”. He told a crowd of supporters in Iowa, a key state on the campaign trail: “China is going to eat our lunch? Come on, man.”

But his remarks drew criticism from other potential Democratic candidates like Bernie Sanders, who said it was “wrong to pretend” China was not a major competitor to the US.

Trump also lashed out at Biden, saying his comments were the reason China had changed its stance in the trade talks, hoping they could negotiate with “Joe Biden or one of the very weak Democrats,” he tweeted on Tuesday.

Top US policymakers and businesspeople involved in trade talks told Reuters that the talks had soured after China reneged on many of its promises to meet US demands on key issues, such as the protection of intellectual property rights.

But some US businesses expressed discontent with the tariff increases, including US soybean producers, who have suffered from retaliatory tariffs placed on American beans by China.

“We need a positive resolution of this ongoing tariff dispute, not further escalation of tensions,” said Davie Stephens, president of the American Soybean Association said in a statement on Tuesday.

Jiang Shixue, professor of international relations at Shanghai University, said: “For Trump, I don’t believe the net effect [of his comments] is 100 per cent positive. The US economy will also suffer from the trade war.”
 
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