Trade War with China

zealotaiur485 said:

Rationality only works when both parties in the room are open to it. In the current USA-China trade war, only China is rational. The US govt is too far gone and can't back out now. In the beginning it was a trade dispute. But now, imo, it's pretty a bloodbath war between an old dying king (USA) and the young prince who's next in line for the throne (China). The old king has already lost his rationality and succumbed to fear and paranoia. His entire objective right now is to wipe out any potential threats to his seat of power. Even though the tariffs are doing damage to the US as well, he doesn't care and considers it a small price to pay in order to maintain his hegemony.

Can't talk sense into an irrational person no matter how hard you try..

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Don't forget the old king has enough experience to know he can weather out the storm. It might seem unconventional at first, but this is pretty much the only option US has to suppress China( excluding ofcourse kaboom). The liberal policies toward China might sure have been looked at as charity by people in power back when it required to be lifted out of poverty, and by strategists as a way to increase probability of China going the democratic way but now costs far outweigh the benefits. Any increase in China's economy or technical capabilities directly pits it against US.
Gotta give credit to China's strategists for using the last 40 years so damn efficiently while US lingered in its Soviet hangover.

Trump was suppose to add new tariffs to the rest of China's exports to the US at the beginning of the year. Those products would've hit US manufacturers outsourcing to China which Trump has mostly been avoiding. All he did was increase the tariff on exports he's already hit. During all this time Trump has been touting that trade talks have been going well and now all of the sudden they're not to which why he's slapping tariffs. He claims China has been trying to renegotiate terms already agreed upon. Trump has been bragging that he negotiates like in his business. Well in his business he waits until the last minute and then changes terms with his contractors and holds out until where they have to eventually agree to new terms and Trump ends up getting a better deal in the end. That's how he operates. Trump was delusional thinking China was going to collapse day one and the US wasn't going to feel a thing in a trade war against China. Trump has to save face because the US wasn't so easily invulnerable so he can't back out of what he promised his voter base. That's why nothing has been happening on a trade deal since the beginning of the year. He's stuck between he doesn't look like he backed down and facing more economic turmoil taking on China until now. What has changed? Joe Biden has enter the Presidential race and instantly commands an overwhelming lead over his democratic rivals. Polls show he would beat Trump. Trump went on a flurry of twitter attacks on Joe Biden showing his insecurity. Trump's henchman, Rudy Giuliani, was heading to Ukraine hoping to enlist the foreign government's help to dig dirt on Joe Biden over his son's business dealings with foreigners because that would look bad to the American people. And then Rudy had to cancel his trip because it hit the Trump administration that he's asking for help of a foreign government to undermine a US election... again. So Trump's change on trade with China is all about how Trump is in panic over the 2020 election and has to go back to his campaign tactics and rhetoric he believes got him elected.

In the analogy in my previous comment, the USA was the old king and China was the young prince. But I do agree with the gist of your comment.
In terms of wisdom, China being the 5000 year old civilization is a lot more wise than the USA.
China is staying clam and collected in this trade war, and hasn't lost sight of its long term goals.
Whereas USA is too rash and immature, and has lost its critical reasoning capacity (kind of like the mindless Hulk just smashing everything).

Biden has already demonstrated his willingness to play down the Sino-US hostilities/rivalry instead of allowing them to boil to the surface. If Trump has to lose to somebody, Biden probably would not be the worst person to lose to.

AssassinsMace said:

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Trump is collecting tariffs China is paying and he'll use it buying agricultural products from US farmers to give to poor countries to feed their people... LOL!!!!!

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Great! Isn't it, i couldn't believe that when I saw him tweeted that.

As i said before, it is sad that ALL his followers believe everyword!

zealotaiur485 said:

It wouldn't be the first time. Lighthizer was very disrespectful towards the Japanese officials during the 1980s USA-Japan trade conflict as well:

"The trade talks on steel imports were dragging on, and Robert Lighthizer didn’t care for the Japanese offer. So he folded it into a paper airplane and launched it across his desk at Japan’s lead negotiator… The 1985 deal capped weeks of negotiations in which Lighthizer, then the deputy U.S. Trade Representative, shocked his Japanese counterparts with rough-hewn jokes and wore them out with his disdain for their proposals, former colleagues recalled. During one Japanese presentation, he devoted his attention to playfully disassembling his microphone."

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Lighthizer is some piece of work, like I said before, he is one of those students who would rather see US growth rate suffers than seeing someone overtaking US economically.

He's belligerent and arrogant, and lack total respect for his counter part.

However, I think he's got his work cut out this time

CMP said:

Biden has already demonstrated his willingness to play down the Sino-US hostilities/rivalry instead of allowing them to boil to the surface. If Trump has to lose to somebody, Biden probably would not be the worst person to lose to.

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Democratic party is highly divided. All the candidates are jokes and lack the Trumpian populism. Either way, the tariffs are here to stay it seems for 2-6 years.

Quite Happy with the current stance of China. As for people here commenting about US being the old king and all - I don't support that view. USA still is overwhelmingly strong.USA's real strength is in it's Human resource. Even if the US government thinks that Military power is its strength, the real strength had always been its people. Not the patriots/jingoists or those who are uber passionate about their rights and 2nd amendments or those who sing the hymns of prosperity gospel BUT the fruits of Stanford, Caltech, MIT. It also includes the rich brains of its "liberals" who usually enrich their culture and help project US soft power across the planet through the media and whatnot ; hiding and flanking the less attractive folks of the "silent majority" far inland.

A US govt that had forsaken/mistrusts the folks of academia/media and attacks them directly or indirectly is in the interest of anyone who wants to see a multi-polar world. And this is exactly what china has to get right. The strength of USA is NOT intertwined with religion or race ( even tho religious/racists would like to project it) BUT it is woven with technology, science and entrepreneurship. China has successfully demonstrated that a "Communist" government is in no way a hindrance to technological/scientific progress or entrepreneurship skills of the people. If you play the cards right, you can indeed win the game without having "democracy" or "freedom" supporting you. It is too soon into the game to tell but the current frustration of US is very indicative of China's progress and potential. The trade war is never going to end with a deal. It is simply more than just a trade war.

I sincerely Hope China learns valuable lessons from the current trade war (no matter what its ending).
Even if its foreign envoys continue to speak about "harmony","peace","cooperation","dignity","win-win" etc the Chinese leadership must understand ( i hope they did a long time ago) that the US does not want a China that breathes down its neck and will do anything possible to suck it dry and keep it from being able to distribute the dumplings of prosperity to its half a billion people.
Oh and btw, the world needs a sheriff to police its many nations with much scores to be settled. I don't think China should interest itself with doing such a dirty job.( I honestly don't think China has what it takes regarding both wealth,time and conviction). It is in China's interest to have another country to do the dirty housekeeping for China.

localizer said:

Democratic party is highly divided. All the candidates are jokes and lack the Trumpian populism. Either way, the tariffs are here to stay it seems for 2-6 years.

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Recent poll put Biden at 36% and Sanders at 18%. All the other candidates were in the range of 2-6%.

Xsizor said:

Quite Happy with the current stance of China. As for people here commenting about US being the old king and all - I don't support that view. USA still is overwhelmingly strong.

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An old king still has power, no denying that. Comparing the strength of the current USA and China, the USA does have an advantage over China for now. However, every year that goes by the gap is narrowing. Similar to a king becoming older and isn't as strong compared to his youth. Once the king reaches a point where he can no longer rule the kingdom, the crown will go to someone else (most likely to a younger prince). The king in his current state is aware of what's going on but he refuses to step down peacefully. Hence he's taking steps to eliminate anyone that might succeed him. Using this analogy to explain the current USA-China trade war makes it more clear for everyone.
Another term for this would be the "Thucydides Trap" - when a rising power causes fear in an established power which escalates toward war.. It has happened before in Ancient Greece and in the prelude before WW1. What's happening now is just a continuation of that.