Trade War with China

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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
UK government clears Huawei

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Manageable risk basically means the same holes that get addressed like when your Windows updates with security patches is being spun by the US as nefarious plots by the Chinese. That's like claiming Microsoft is spying on users because there shouldn't be any holes at all in the first place for security patches to update so it has to be evil intent. It's there even though no one can find it is their conclusion because the Chinese are sneaky. But then there goes the belief the US has the best programmers and hackers if they can't find and can only assume.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
AFAIK US never claimed to have the best programmers and/or hackers.

They have some special privileges on the western networks but that’s not different than whatever privileges China would have on it’s own net and their exports.
 

drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
Declaring a state of emergency doesn't mean Trump can access money from a reserve. It means he can reallocate money earmarked according to a budget that has been passed by both houses and signed by the President for this emergency. So someone loses and in this case much of the money is coming from the Pentagon meant to be spent for other purposes..
unlikely trump will see any of that money before the election. truth is he is pressed to make a deal. having called himself the best dealmaker, he totally screwed it up on the shutdown fight. now he's gotta prove himself somewhere else, the fact that he is willing to extend the deadline shows that he is under immense pressure to make this work. in a way the shutdown fight helped Beijing significantly.
 

Quickie

Colonel
My opinion is that the gullible masses are deliberately lead to thinking that only telecommunication equipment has security risks while in fact, the biggest security risk is the operating system software we use in our computers and smartphones where the encryptions of our data actually take place. It's crazy that we take for granted our personal data (banking, financial etc.) is safe every time we update the O/S software in our computers and smartphones (when we are prompt to do so at any time) while on the other hand, we are being influenced into griping about the telecommunication equipment that does not in any way involve in the encryption and decryption of data.

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Huawei Crackdown Exposes Europe as Laggard in Global 5G Race


Their lobbying exposes a weakness: Europe hasn’t been at the forefront on 5G, even before the Trump administration began
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allies to block Huawei over concerns that the Chinese government could use its equipment for spying, which the company has repeatedly denied.



“The risk is that it puts Europe further behind the curve,” said Neil Campling, an analyst at Mirabaud Securities in London.


Britain has been considering whether to block Huawei’s equipment from 5G or keep managing it through dialogue and oversight. A full ban is unlikely, a British official
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last month, speaking on condition of anonymity, and the U.K.’s spy chief said on Friday that barring Huawei might not be
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.

While Europe led the way with earlier mobile technologies, China, South Korea, Japan and -- to a lesser extent -- the U.S., are ahead on the next rollouts.

5G Race
China's on track for more 5G subscribers than Western Europe, U.S combined


Despite beating the drum for 5G, which promises gigabit-per-second download speeds -- 10 times faster than 4G and at a lower cost to carriers -- European telecom executives are expected to be relatively
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to invest for fear the spending won’t pay off for a long time.

European carriers are generally less profitable and regulators have blocked mergers that would allow a patchwork of operators to scale up. The spectrum needed for 5G hasn’t all been assigned yet and governments are set to tap them for billions of euros at
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in the coming year.

Huawei is deeply embedded in Europe’s telecom networks, so restrictions could be more disruptive than in other places. In the U.S., the industry has generally avoided Huawei under government pressure. The Chinese government, far from limiting its telecom vendors facing global scrutiny, may dictate a faster 5G deployment to back Huawei and ZTE Corp., analysts at New Street Research said last month.

“The U.S. and China are actually in a good place, because one has never allowed Huawei and one is agnostic to it,” said Guy Peddy, an analyst at Macquarie.

Huawei has come from almost nowhere in Europe a decade ago to supply about a third of telecom systems. It’s positioned itself to be a critical provider of antennas, switches, routers, small cells and network slicing gear for 5G by conducting trials with carriers. The company has been helped by security agencies that opened the door while closely monitoring its equipment.

That cautious acceptance is now in question as governments realize how hard it will be to police 5G. With 4G networks, data is usually channeled through a central core, or “brain,” whereas in 5G, it will be processed and sent between multiple points in a more scattered arrangement that could make it harder to spot weaknesses and hacks.
In Germany, one idea considered last month at a meeting of network operators and government officials was to give state security full access to the source code of suppliers including Huawei, Ericsson AB and Cisco Systems Inc., according to a person briefed on a meeting, who asked not to be identified as the deliberations were private.

If the oversight proposals fail and Huawei is banned from 5G, Deutsche Telekom is
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a two-year delay, according to an internal paper written in recent weeks. A person at another major European phone company, asking not to be identified, said barring Huawei would delay its 5G launch by 18 months.

With the outlook murky, carriers in the region don’t appear ready to abandon Huawei. BT is ramping up building its 5G network assuming Huawei will be involved, while studying contingency options that could include relying more on other suppliers, said a person involved in the planning. A spokeswoman for BT declined to comment.

Made in China
Chinese wireless technology is winning in Europe, the Middle East and Africa


One concern is the testing and costs tied to making 5G gear from Huawei’s European rivals Nokia Oyj and Ericsson compatible with its 4G kit. Carriers also see Ericsson and Nokia as being about a year behind on 5G product development, said Macquarie’s Peddy.

Nokia and Ericsson
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Huawei doesn’t have a product edge and that they both are already deploying 5G equipment. Ericsson Chief Executive Officer Borje Ekholm, in a blog
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, said Europe isn’t moving as quickly as other markets because of the lack of spectrum, high spectrum fees and heavy regulation. Eric Mangan, a Nokia spokesman, said the Finnish company can upgrade 4G equipment from any vendor to 5G.

The nightmare scenario for phone companies would be if they have to remove existing Huawei 4G gear. While some analysts see that as unlikely, Deutsche Telekom has flagged the risk: In its internal note, it put the cost of a retroactive ban at many billions of euros.

That “would seriously disrupt the whole mobile ecosystem,” Stockholm-based consultant Bengt Nordstrom said in an interview.
 
now I read
China rejects U.S. position on Huawei
Xinhua| 2019-02-18 22:03:13
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Chinese Foreign Ministry on Monday rejected the position of the United States on Huawei, saying China hopes all countries will abide by the principle of fair competition and jointly safeguard a fair and non-discriminatory market environment.

According to reports, U.S. Vice President Mike Pence warned its allies to take seriously "the threat" posed by Chinese enterprise Huawei as they look for partners to build 5G wireless infrastructure. He made the remarks Saturday during the Munich Security Conference.

Reports also said that some U.S. officials recently argued that under China's National Intelligence Law companies such as Huawei or ZTE could be compelled to hand over data or access to Chinese intelligence.

"These are mistaken and one-sided interpretations of relevant Chinese laws," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Geng Shuang said at a news briefing.

China's National Intelligence Law not only stipulates the obligations of organizations and citizens to support the work of national intelligence within Chinese law, but also stipulates that state intelligence should abide by laws, respect and protect human rights, and safeguard the rights and interests of individuals and organizations, said Geng.

He said other Chinese laws also have many provisions to protect the legitimate rights and interests of citizens and organizations, including data security and privacy. These rules also apply to national intelligence work.

"The U.S. side should understand this comprehensively and objectively, and not make incorrect and one-sided interpretations," Geng said.

He added that it is an internationally accepted practice to use legislation to maintain national security and require organizations and individuals to cooperate with national intelligence work.

Members of the "Five Eyes" alliance including the United States, Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Western countries such as France and Germany all have similar requirements, he said.

The Chinese government always demands its enterprises conduct economic cooperation on a legal basis in accordance with local laws and regulations, Geng said, adding that China has always adhered to the basic principles of international law including mutual respect for sovereignty, equality and mutual benefit.

China never demands any institution or individual to violate local laws or build "mandatory back doors" to collect data, information or intelligence located in foreign countries, said the spokesperson.

"The United States and a few of its allies are using double standards and deliberately misleading the public on the issue. They use the issue as an excuse for suppressing the legitimate development rights and interests of Chinese enterprises, using political means to intervene in economic behaviors. It's hypocritical, immoral and unfair bullying behaviors," said Geng.
 

drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member

The former italian ambassador in China says that the actual US policy toward the PRC is completely flawed and a big historical fail
can't understand what it says, but i actually thought US policies towards the PRC had been very competent. George Bush refrained from cutting China off completely after 1989, Clinton negotiated China's entry into the WTO, Bush initially was hostile to China but reversed position after 9/11 and actively expanded trade relations, Obama was a bit more "competitive" with proposals like TPP, but also sought to cooperate on things like the Paris agreement and Iran. It was really only with Trump that America's China policy totally collapsed, in fact I would say with Trump America's foreign policy as a whole has collapsed, total chaos everywhere. But trump is trump, previous presidents were very competent and cool-headed with China regardless of party.
 

styx

Junior Member
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can't understand what it says, but i actually thought US policies towards the PRC had been very competent. George Bush refrained from cutting China off completely after 1989, Clinton negotiated China's entry into the WTO, Bush initially was hostile to China but reversed position after 9/11 and actively expanded trade relations, Obama was a bit more "competitive" with proposals like TPP, but also sought to cooperate on things like the Paris agreement and Iran. It was really only with Trump that America's China policy totally collapsed, in fact I would say with Trump America's foreign policy as a whole has collapsed, total chaos everywhere. But trump is trump, previous presidents were very competent and cool-headed with China regardless of party.

China unlike soviet union didn't built a massive conventional military force and a massive nuclear force in overt competition with US. They could have done it easily in 10 years but they didn't, but now?
 

drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
China unlike soviet union didn't built a massive conventional military force and a massive nuclear force in overt competition with US. They could have done it easily in 10 years but they didn't, but now?
the point is that it were never in America's interest to confront China. To shape China's role in the international community is necessary, but to outright make an enemy of it was never a policy. Back in the Clinton years America saw China the same way as it did Korea decades earlier, it is a trade partner with a problematic political system (of course truth be told China's current government is far more competent). The logic was that like Korea, China will "democratize" and join the "free world" once it is opened up. This was wishful thinking and as we know did not materialize, but while the policy was based on false logic, it also produced enormous benefits for the US and the world economically. There was really no need to fix something that was not broken, China would not be a threat to the US in a hundred years.
 
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