Trade War with China

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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Equation said:
You're really hilarious. Your armed forced entered Italy without the permission of the official government resulting in the death of their leader. Your opinion of him doesn't matter. That is the textbook definition of an invasion. If we used your twisted logic, there would be no such word as invasion; it would all be "liberation" whenever a country attacked another one.
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Equation I like you but you're off in what I quoted right above:

there had been Hitla-Japan-Italy alliance during WW2 until that alliance lost WW2,

so it's ridiculous to say the Allies "entered Italy without the permission of the official government" (purely technically it's true but common, the US landed on Okinawa in 1945 without Japan permission, too, and the Red Army moved into Germany in 1944, too, right?)

of course it was an act of invasion
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but a part the Allied war effort!

I had to protest, as 'questioning' of WW2 is potentially ILLEGAL where I live
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
Jura said:
Equation I like you but you're off in what I quoted right above:

there had been Hitla-Japan-Italy alliance during WW2 until that alliance lost WW2,

so it's ridiculous to say the Allies "entered Italy without the permission of the official government" (purely technically it's true but common, the US landed on Okinawa in 1945 without Japan permission, too, and the Red Army moved into Germany in 1944, too, right?)

of course it was an act of invasion
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but a part the Allied war effort!

I had to protest, as 'questioning' of WW2 is potentially ILLEGAL where I live
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I have no idea what you're talking about. In the same sentence, you called something ridiculous but also technically true. Well, I guess I agree with you 50% in saying it's of course true.

Yes, US forces invaded Japan after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. No complaints there. The Red Army invaded Germany after Germany tried to invade Russia. Also self-caused. The use of the term, "invaded" is correct in every instance although the nature was self-brought. Italy, however, entered the war in mid 1940, when the US was officially neutral. When the US decided to join the allied forces, it attacked and invaded Italy. So the use of "invaded" remains correct, however, the nature is no longer of self-infliction. I understand it was war; the US went to Europe to fight a war to assert its influence over Europeans (who had been weary from fighting for years already) at a cost to European lands. The fact remains that the US offensively invaded Italy while Italians did not attack the US before.

So, everything of what I said was true in word and in spirit. And those who think not need only refer to the definition of the term, "invasion" and the history of Italian involvement in WWII.
 
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styx

Junior Member
Registered Member
Jura said:
Equation I like you but you're off in what I quoted right above:

there had been Hitla-Japan-Italy alliance during WW2 until that alliance lost WW2,

so it's ridiculous to say the Allies "entered Italy without the permission of the official government" (purely technically it's true but common, the US landed on Okinawa in 1945 without Japan permission, too, and the Red Army moved into Germany in 1944, too, right?)

of course it was an act of invasion
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

but a part the Allied war effort!

I had to protest, as 'questioning' of WW2 is potentially ILLEGAL where I live
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WW2 was a struggle between various powerful nations with winners and losers, not an " white americans saved the world thing". And remember that the first cries of all fascist regimes are always "others in the world are fucking us" just like americans are saying about China. And if not china it will be mexico, and if not mexico India and so on. Why? Because they are not white.
 
O

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Trade War thread seemingly off topic, but this is just an evolution towards what it really is all about. Politics. Maybe we should back off from hostilities but honestly these hostilities exist for good reason. American members may be willingly ignoring nuances to the entire idea of having an equitable and merit based order in the world because they are almost always on the pro US bandwagon and the US can do no wrong, and has done no wrong in their view. If they want to say this isn't true, then they are sliding down a slippery slope (common name to be called as a Chinese person haha) and they are admitting that the US is far from perfect and therefore their policies and thinking is not only doubtful, but is in fact often wrong and evil.

What is the sense in a person saying they enjoy an Italian bike? So what? Poor effort in trying to create some bond. Chinese consumers propped up Maserati from the brink of financial collapse. Check out their sales records before and after the Chinese market jumped onto Maserati. Does that mean Italians should love Chinese policies? What a ridiculous idea.
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Equation said:
I have no idea what you're talking about. In the same sentence, you called something ridiculous but also technically true. Well, I guess I agree with you 50% in saying it's of course true.

Yes, US forces invaded Japan after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. No complaints there. The Red Army invaded Germany after Germany tried to invade Russia. Also self-caused. The use of the term, "invaded" is correct in every instance although the nature was self-brought. Italy, however, entered the war in mid 1940, when the US was officially neutral. When the US decided to join the allied forces, it attacked and invaded Italy. So the use of "invaded" remains correct, however, the nature is no longer of self-infliction. I understand it was war; the US went to Europe to fight a war to assert its influence over Europeans (who had been weary from fighting for years already) at a cost to European lands. The fact remains that the US offensively invaded Italy while Italians did not attack the US before.

So, everything of what I said was true in word and in spirit. And those who think not need only refer to the definition of the term, "invasion" and the history of Italian involvement in WWII.
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Equation NO
it's my lunch break so I have to quick, no googlefu
I think you didn't turn into a Nazi (LOL), you're just misinformed: Italy (and Hitla) declared war on the US right after Japs had bombed Pearl!
(of course the US reciprocated by declaring war on the Axis)

I've read texts suggesting as if Japan were pushed into the war by FDR sanctions (from I think August of 1941), and as if Germany had to attack the Soviet Union first or Stalin would've hit Germans (it's in books by "Paul Carell" I read back in 1990s, I mean parts about a structure of the Red Army buildup around 1940), and blah blah blah, such 'relativism' is unacceptable to me plus, as I said in the post you quoted, it could get me into trouble here if I had claimed the Axis wasn't the bad side in WW2

I won't change my mind on this, but if you still wanted to discuss WW2 (perhaps some technicalities related to Italy which I wouldn't know), please take it to
WW II Historical Thread, Discussion, Pics, Videos https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/ww-ii-historical-thread-discussion-pics-videos.t6728/page-75

in short, bro, we're going to disagree on WW2
 
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styx

Junior Member
Registered Member
about the trade war between China and USA. The same concept of intellectual property emerged in the 80s, I find it disgusting to oblige developing countries to have to reinvent hot water every time so as not to have to pay a tax to American companies every time they produce something. There is a limit to the excessive power of patents that often must be supported by financial power that poor countries do not have. It seems to me that Chinese legislation does not recognize "intellectual property" (not even "Chinese") and I find this to be a very positive thing. If an allmighty white American company has problems with chinese low-cost copies it can always go to horizons of research in which the "yellow snouts" can not reach them and make progress all the humanity.
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
now I read
22:17, 31-Jan-2019
China urges U.S. to be open, inclusive on others' technological development
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A Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson on Thursday called on the U.S. to adopt an open and inclusive mindset regarding technological development and progress of other countries.

The United States is the No. 1 technological power in the world, but the country "should not allow solely its own development but no room for others' progress," spokesperson Geng Shuang said at a daily press briefing.

Geng's comments came after Vice Chairman of the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Mark Warner and Senate minority leader Charles Schumer accused China of stealing American technology.

It is unreasonable for the United States to willfully slander and make accusations against other countries' technological development and progress, Geng said.

"China's technological development does not come from stealing or robbing, but is achieved through wisdom and hard work of all the Chinese people, including scientists."

Given that competition is a fundamental feature of the market economy, Geng urged the U.S. to view and deal with competition more objectively and correctly.

The existence of competition between China and the U.S. in the technological field is absolutely normal, Geng said, adding that such competition is conducive to the technological development of the two sides and the whole world, as long as it is fair and rule-based.

"China stands ready to work with the U.S. to further strengthen exchanges and cooperation in the technology field so as to better benefit people in China, the United States, and the whole world," he said.
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A

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Big Business Plans All-Out Blitz on Washington to End Trade War
Bloomberg

Corporate America is taking the gloves off in its campaign to end President Trump’s trade war.

A coalition of more than 200 trade associations spanning agriculture, manufacturing, retail, technology, oil and even liquor will begin a new two-pronged attack next week to try to end the policies they see as damaging. The campaign, called Tariffs Hurt the Heartland, will involve blanketing Capitol Hill with farmers and other business owners, plus debuting an ad aimed at parents that essentially says the trade war might be endangering babies.

The escalation comes at a crucial time: The president and Chinese officials are
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with just a month to go before U.S. tariffs on $200 billion of Chinese imports are slated to more than double to 25 percent. It also marks a shift in strategy. After a year of struggling to directly sway Trump and his inner circle, including running ads on Fox News -- his favorite cable channel -- corporate lobbyists are ratcheting up pressure outside the White House.

“People have to think through different strategies because the normal operating procedure doesn’t work,” said Matt Priest, chief executive officer of the Footwear Distributors and Retailers of America, which is part of the wider coalition. “Some of that strategy is paying off, but the response isn’t the response we would’ve liked.”

D.C. Bound

Next week, about 100 executives and business owners from companies big and small will visit Washington to lobby Congress, especially the large freshmen class -- mostly Democrats -- that may still be formulating their stances on trade. Support is also needed for a
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intended to rein in the president’s trade authority.

Read more
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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
the series of three Trump's tweets starting from
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:
"China’s top trade negotiators are in the U.S. meeting with our representatives. Meetings are going well with good intent and spirit on both sides. China does not want an increase in Tariffs and feels they will do much better if they make a deal. They are correct. I will be......

....meeting with their top leaders and representatives today in the Oval Office. No final deal will be made until my friend President Xi, and I, meet in the near future to discuss and agree on some of the long standing and more difficult points. Very comprehensive transaction....

....China’s representatives and I are trying to do a complete deal, leaving NOTHING unresolved on the table. All of the many problems are being discussed and will be hopefully resolved. Tariffs on China increase to 25% on March 1st, so all working hard to complete by that date!"
 
A

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
styx said:
it's time for china to enter in "preparing for world war mode" time to double every year the defense budget and initiate actions to disrupt american interests in all the world. Just like Soviet Union.
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It's not time for China to prepare for world war mode.

China should continue to spend a modest 2% of GDP on the military, as it has done so for the past 20+ years.

That level of military spending will pay for 50 DF-41 missiles with 300-500 warheads with the range to reach the USA, which is enough to ensure Mutual Assured Destruction, and prevent an actual war between China and the USA.
China will also easily be able to afford the large military buildup that we currently see as well.

An actual arms race where China doubles military spending to 4% of GDP would be a huge waste of resources.
China is at the global average of 2%, although the militarised economies of Russia and the USA do routinely spend 4% of GDP on the military.

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There are still many areas of mutual interest between the USA and China, which most people recognise.

And from China's long term perspective (as the largest trading nation, largest economy in actual output, and largest spender on R&D), it is better if there is a liberal trade and investment order for its companies to expand.

But China does need to increase its strategic independence and leverage significantly in things like financial payments and also R&D technology spending, which is where extra money should go towards.
 
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