Trade War with China

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Dizasta1

Senior Member
So the west is not about freedom or equality but instead about good old fashion power.

When it comes to the "West" ... Appearances and Reality are at two opposite ends. And it's not good old fashion power, they still have that "Colonial" mentality. They seem to think that if they don't have the bigger stick, then someone else will wield it do exactly what they are doing. Russia has proven that this is not the case, so has China. Vietnam wasn't "colonized," then "invaded" by China, no that was good ole France and then America.

SCS has never been about the small countries being trampled upon, it's been about strategy where China doesn't leave itself open to vulnerability. BRI is China's alternative to maritime trade routes being vulnerable to U.S Navy's blockades or attacks. And if anyone says that US wouldn't do that. I would suggest to such people to go read the history books and see what Germany did to the so-called "Allied Ship" traversing the Atlantic Ocean to supply the little island of Britain.

China and Russia must know the factors which have contributed to the sort of behavior America & Britain have been exhibiting for the past few years;

1. Trillions of dollars wasted on so-called "War on Terror" (more like manufactured terror) and Iraq's invasion.

2. The financial crisis of 2008, where the epicenter being Wall Street, and it not only destroyed US economy, but also swooped the world with it.

3. Successive years of Quantitative Easing, interest rates hitting rock bottom. To the point that they were near zero.

4. US national debt stands near "$21 trillion" (yeah, I can't make this shit up even if I wanted to), interest rates can only go up, not down (can't go below zero), which in other words means "check and mate."

5. New defense budget announced as $733 billion, despite the fact that the national debt is nearing the $21 trillion mark.

When looking at these factors, it's no wonder they're meddling in Ukraine, expanding military presence in Eastern Europe, trying to intimidate Russia in the Black Sea, installation of ABM systems in countries surrounding Russia, arming Taiwan, threatening full blown trade war with China.

Anyone see why US is behaving this way? Anyone read what happened to US stock market last week? Dow Jones dropped 724.42 points (Thursday, 6th December 2018), the last time such a huge drop happened in US stock market, was September 2008 (trigger point of 2008 Financial Crisis). Then on the following day (Friday), Dow Jones dropped points (last week, following the 700 point drop).

America's economic woes continue unabated, what more they are on the verge of testing the threshold. They can't have QE again, they won't lower the interest rates (little to no room left to maneuver), they just slashed $33 billion from the defense budget (this after they had announced a defense budget of $733 billion).

The point I'm trying to make, is the last time a country was in this position (Germany), it no choice left but to go to war. German ascent from wheel-borrowing German Marks to buy a loaf of bread in 1921 to having the most powerful and modern military in 1935, didn't just appear out of thin air or with a magic wand. It comes at a cost and that was one of the contributing factors of breaking the peace treaty with Soviets and invading the country. Stupidity, since Germany would've never been able to win the war fighting on two fronts. Which explains the desperate act.

America now stands in a similar predicament, except Germany didn't have the "Federal Reserve" or the global reserve currency. One of those two advantages, is now fast eroding away. And when the SWIFT banking system has a counter opposite established and working, America will be left with but few options.

Let me break it down for anyone who still is in neverland ranch. A few months ago, Pakistan's new government was facing an impending credit default and needed $12 billion to avoid it. U.S Secretary of State - Mike Pompeo stated that IMF bail out will not be given, if Pakistan used that money to pay off Chinese loans. Despite the "International" in IMF, the institution is a tool of extortion used by America. And irrespective of Pakistan's economic situation, the new government showed it had a spine and refused IMF money, instead managed to get help from other countries to avoid default.

The point being, Pakistan stood up to US hegemony. And if a country like Pakistan can do it. Well you know what they say, what happens when sharks smell blood in the water. That's your answer to what state of desperation the United States and its ally (UK) is in.
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
When it comes to the "West" ... Appearances and Reality are at two opposite ends. And it's not good old fashion power, they still have that "Colonial" mentality. They seem to think that if they don't have the bigger stick, then someone else will wield it do exactly what they are doing. Russia has proven that this is not the case, so has China. Vietnam wasn't "colonized," then "invaded" by China, no that was good ole France and then America.

SCS has never been about the small countries being trampled upon, it's been about strategy where China doesn't leave itself open to vulnerability. BRI is China's alternative to maritime trade routes being vulnerable to U.S Navy's blockades or attacks. And if anyone says that US wouldn't do that. I would suggest to such people to go read the history books and see what Germany did to the so-called "Allied Ship" traversing the Atlantic Ocean to supply the little island of Britain.

China and Russia must know the factors which have contributed to the sort of behavior America & Britain have been exhibiting for the past few years;

1. Trillions of dollars wasted on so-called "War on Terror" (more like manufactured terror) and Iraq's invasion.

2. The financial crisis of 2008, where the epicenter being Wall Street, and it not only destroyed US economy, but also swooped the world with it.

3. Successive years of Quantitative Easing, interest rates hitting rock bottom. To the point that they were near zero.

4. US national debt stands near "$21 trillion" (yeah, I can't make this shit up even if I wanted to), interest rates can only go up, not down (can't go below zero), which in other words means "check and mate."

5. New defense budget announced as $733 billion, despite the fact that the national debt is nearing the $21 trillion mark.

When looking at these factors, it's no wonder they're meddling in Ukraine, expanding military presence in Eastern Europe, trying to intimidate Russia in the Black Sea, installation of ABM systems in countries surrounding Russia, arming Taiwan, threatening full blown trade war with China.

Anyone see why US is behaving this way? Anyone read what happened to US stock market last week? Dow Jones dropped 724.42 points (Thursday, 6th December 2018), the last time such a huge drop happened in US stock market, was September 2008 (trigger point of 2008 Financial Crisis). Then on the following day (Friday), Dow Jones dropped points (last week, following the 700 point drop).

America's economic woes continue unabated, what more they are on the verge of testing the threshold. They can't have QE again, they won't lower the interest rates (little to no room left to maneuver), they just slashed $33 billion from the defense budget (this after they had announced a defense budget of $733 billion).

The point I'm trying to make, is the last time a country was in this position (Germany), it no choice left but to go to war. German ascent from wheel-borrowing German Marks to buy a loaf of bread in 1921 to having the most powerful and modern military in 1935, didn't just appear out of thin air or with a magic wand. It comes at a cost and that was one of the contributing factors of breaking the peace treaty with Soviets and invading the country. Stupidity, since Germany would've never been able to win the war fighting on two fronts. Which explains the desperate act.

America now stands in a similar predicament, except Germany didn't have the "Federal Reserve" or the global reserve currency. One of those two advantages, is now fast eroding away. And when the SWIFT banking system has a counter opposite established and working, America will be left with but few options.

Let me break it down for anyone who still is in neverland ranch. A few months ago, Pakistan's new government was facing an impending credit default and needed $12 billion to avoid it. U.S Secretary of State - Mike Pompeo stated that IMF bail out will not be given, if Pakistan used that money to pay off Chinese loans. Despite the "International" in IMF, the institution is a tool of extortion used by America. And irrespective of Pakistan's economic situation, the new government showed it had a spine and refused IMF money, instead managed to get help from other countries to avoid default.

The point being, Pakistan stood up to US hegemony. And if a country like Pakistan can do it. Well you know what they say, what happens when sharks smell blood in the water. That's your answer to what state of desperation the United States and its ally (UK) is in.

I would actually say that America's current position is more like that of the UK.

The UK was the incumbent with:
1. the pre-eminent global navy
2. global commercial and financial interests
3. the issuer of the reserve currency (pounds sterling)
4. had just undertaken a long expensive war in South Africa against the Boers
5. which faced a Germany which had just become its economic/industrial/technological equal
6. was facing Imperial overstretch, because many other countries around the world had risen
 
If I'm not mistaken this talk was as recent as from around June this year. ...
LOL thought you had watched:
ch.jpg
 
now took a look at
LIVE: Bail hearing resumes for Meng Wanzhou, the Huawei CFO arrested on fraud allegations
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this one is interesting:
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Michael Mui @Mui24hours
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's lawyer says his client will foot the costs for the monitoring and surveillance services.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
I’m surprised no one has commented on the very interesting timing of Genal Kelly’s departure as WH Chief of staff.

The western MSM is spinning the pathetic cover story that he is being suddenly forced out because he allegedly called Trump an idiot months ago, which was revealed months ago. Are we supposed to believe his position suddenly became untenable only now? Just after the Huawei incident?

Both the Trump White House and Beijing are being unusually quiet on the matter, so it looks like there are serious behind-the-scenes activity going on to keep everyone from shooting their mouths off publically.

Even the Canadians are trying their level best to down play their involvedment, which I am going to given them the benefit of the doubt on; since they have no incentive to get tangled in such a messy and murky fight.

On the face of it, it looks to me like rogue elements within the US government instigated the whole affair by tricking some low to mid level
Canadian law enforcement officers into thinking they were just serving a routine arrest warrant without realising the international shitstorm their were actually stirring up.

I am hopeful that Trump would secretly lean on the Canadians to rule the arrest warrant as invalid to end the matter without looking like he backed down from a fight. Alternatively, they can grant her bail, she skips town and no one really looses any sleep over it.

He should not have to lean all that hard, as the Canadian government never wanted anything to do with this mess in the first place.

I think China would have gotten assurances/promises behind the scenes to that effect, and are waiting to see how the cards fall before making their reply.

But Beijing has always been unusually frank about the considerable consequences Canada can expect to face if they extradite Meng, so the only question is just how stupid the Canadians are going to be.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
I would actually say that America's current position is more like that of the UK.

The UK was the incumbent with:
1. the pre-eminent global navy
2. global commercial and financial interests
3. the issuer of the reserve currency (pounds sterling)
4. had just undertaken a long expensive war in South Africa against the Boers
5. which faced a Germany which had just become its economic/industrial/technological equal
6. was facing Imperial overstretch, because many other countries around the world had risen

Yes but it took World War I and II to finally ruin the Empire. While their military resources were focused in certain theaters their colonies basically rebelled and turned independent. Also the British public itself was against colonial occupation by that period so they no longer felt they had the moral imperative to be there at all. Once World War II was over the UK was heavily indebted to the USA which imposed on them repayments at the same time as their empire was crumbling down. This meant that the UK had to continue rationing a decade after World War II was over in order to pay their foreign accounts deficit. This was exacerbated by the fact that Great Britain was not self-sufficient in terms of food. This is not the case with the USA today. The USA could just renege on its debts and they could still defend and feed themselves. This is why you see Trump making moves like these, before the USA totally loses their military industrial capacity.

Rather curiously the USA has been having the same side effects as Britain in the pre World War I period. Their military industrial conglomerate keeps getting more and more centralized with fewer competitors. In the UK it got to a point where Vickers basically owned their entire weapons industry. You see the same pattern with Lockheed Martin and Boeing today. This made a negative feedback loop where the contractors pushed the government into more wars and gave kickbacks to government officials at the same time they had to have massive weapons export abroad to "feed the beast" which only fueled even more wars. At this time the USA had gotten out of its Civil War and had kept military investments to a minimum. Their navy was dwarfed by their civilian merchant marine. Their army was mostly used in their own country or continent and did not have as large a standing army requirement. At the same time they copied and cloned all the inventions done in Europe quite often not paying any royalties at all. This allowed them to leap ahead for much cheaper plus since they had no large existing industries in the first place there was less inertia to improve on their manufacturing methods.

But yes without them controlling the sea lanes and the Persian Gulf there is no way the USA would have the imperial power they have today. However I think in the future as electric cars become more widely available petroleum based fuel usage will drop. In a decade it might mostly be relegated to air travel and other very long distance travel means of transportation. Still sea lanes will remain important because the cost of sea freight is much cheaper than rail and the fact that you can use international waters means you do not have to pay transit fees.
 
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