Trade War with China

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vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Trump is sending a message, nothing wrong with that, I think he's been very clear that what he want's is "fair trade", the previous administrations have "given away the store" so to speak, hence the very poor US economy since the Nixon/Jimmy Carter era....

Trump's is re-setting the table, a good thing for all involved, who wish to trade with the US on a level playing field, bad news for those who haven't played fair!

Instead of repeating talking points, care to list the rules China broke?
 

hkbc

Junior Member
Trump is sending a message, nothing wrong with that, I think he's been very clear that what he want's is "fair trade", the previous administrations have "given away the store" so to speak, hence the very poor US economy since the Nixon/Jimmy Carter era....

Trump's is re-setting the table, a good thing for all involved, who wish to trade with the US on a level playing field, bad news for those who haven't played fair!

As the representative and leader of the United States of America it is very much within the Purview of Messrs Trump to send a message, press conference tweet whatever in fact one could say its his job, the odd day away from a golf course permitting.

As to what the previous leadership of the United States of America did or didn't do that's surely down to the electorate of the US not withstanding any potential foreign meddling, after all the rest of world doesn't demand American companies come and trade with them, they just seem came along all by themselves some times with offers the locals just couldn't refuse! For instance there was that time when some Asian country who just went about life minding their own business came face to face with American "fair trade".

So may be a quick detour down memory lane. It was a better, simpler time 1853 when the US president of the day who would one day run as the presidential candidate of the "Native American Party" (aka "Know Nothing" movement)
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was running the country, before the American Civil War when a man (white of course) could enrich himself and his family by trading cotton from fields tended by cheap (free) labour. Against this back drop an Island nation in the Pacific that for over 200 years had sought not to be bothered by the rest of the world became the focus for American free trade, history records that the methods employed were most successful in the pursuit of American free trade.

So perhaps we should just go with that winning formula, find ourselves a Matthew C. Perry
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, paint the 7th fleet black
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and sail it into the Port of Shanghai to re-enact how proper American "fair trade" is done
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none of this wishy washy negotiation palaver!

Or perhaps, just perhaps, we could use the institutions set up after the WWII largely by the United States without help or hindrance from China (bunch of slackers, those Chinese always leaving the heavy lifting to Americans! :)) to resolve the issue.

After all in a article published in of all places nationaliterest.org (I kid you not!)
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it makes the unbelievably, shocking, revelation that China has never ignored WTO rulings unlike some other countries! Perhaps given the source its just fake news, who knows best run a quiz in facebook to check for confirmation:eek:! But here's the quote for those who's browsers are set to self destruct when they type nationaliterest.org

Unilateral measures, however, appear unlikely to accomplish their desired goals, with China having shown no great willingness to adopt reformist measures in response to unilateral foreign hectoring or punishment. In contrast, complaints brought through the World Trade Organization (WTO) have prompted Beijing to adopt more market-friendly policies in
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. Furthermore, unlike the United States or European Union, China has never ignored WTO rulings that found its practices to be in violation of their member obligations.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Trump is sending a message, nothing wrong with that, I think he's been very clear that what he want's is "fair trade", the previous administrations have "given away the store" so to speak, hence the very poor US economy since the Nixon/Jimmy Carter era....

Trump's is re-setting the table, a good thing for all involved, who wish to trade with the US on a level playing field, bad news for those who haven't played fair!
There is no such thing as fair trade; there's no such thing as fairness in the world as everyone and every country has its unique advantages and disadvantages. If China makes things that Americans want to buy but the US cannot make many things that Chinese people want to buy, there will be a trade imbalance tilting towards China and that's how it should be (aka "fair"). You think it's "fair" that when the US buys $100 billion worth of goods from China that they want, China must also buy $100 billion worth of goods from America that the Chinese don't want? LOL Trying to artificially create an environment so that it balances is not "fair" trade; it is like trying to make all the marathon runners cross the finish line at the same time by making the faster runners carry heavy backpacks while pushing the slower runners along. The reason the US has a huge deficit is not because anything is "unfair;" it is because China is very competitive at making things while the US is not, and also because Chinese people can actually manage their money while Americans plan on how to die with as much debt as possible.

If America had the strength to solve its own problems rather than trying to get everyone else to sweep things under the rug for it, Trump would target US industries and ask them why they are so poor at competing with international peers and unable to entice China to buy.
 
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Equation

Lieutenant General
Trump is sending a message, nothing wrong with that, I think he's been very clear that what he want's is "fair trade", the previous administrations have "given away the store" so to speak, hence the very poor US economy since the Nixon/Jimmy Carter era....

Trump's is re-setting the table, a good thing for all involved, who wish to trade with the US on a level playing field, bad news for those who haven't played fair!

No rather the Dear Leader Trump is making a distraction to get the masses attention away from the Russian probe that's plaguing him and making him nervous. Just look at all of his previous administration people that were either resigned, fired or quit.
 
Trump is sending a message, nothing wrong with that, I think he's been very clear that what he want's is "fair trade", the previous administrations have "given away the store" so to speak, hence the very poor US economy since the Nixon/Jimmy Carter era....

Trump's is re-setting the table, a good thing for all involved, who wish to trade with the US on a level playing field, bad news for those who haven't played fair!
Brother, I'll attach the only Like your post is going to get (LOL) despite I'm really unsure about Trump, actually I didn't want to comment at all, am waiting for Holy Week to begin, Hosanna! Brother
 

B.I.B.

Captain
Trump is sending a message, nothing wrong with that, I think he's been very clear that what he want's is "fair trade", the previous administrations have "given away the store" so to speak, hence the very poor US economy since the Nixon/Jimmy Carter era....

Trump's is re-setting the table, a good thing for all involved, who wish to trade with the US on a level playing field, bad news for those who haven't played fair!

Ok, but if one country has an issue with another countries trade practices, then the norm is to take the issue to the WTO first.
 

B.I.B.

Captain
A good chance to lower iPhone's market share in China just like Galaxy last year.:rolleyes:

As of Boeing, it depends on how the contract is worded. Contract for immediate delivery may carry penalties for cancellations, it is possible to walk away from the contract without penalty for letter of intention. Some of the $37 billion orders could be just that. Handing over these orders to AB would make EU happier, maybe serving as a sweetener for the negotiation of China-EU FTA.:D

I wonder if the C919 will start to have trouble getting American certification?
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Brother, I'll attach the only Like your post is going to get (LOL) despite I'm really unsure about Trump, actually I didn't want to comment at all, am waiting for Holy Week to begin, Hosanna! Brother

Thanks Brother for the like, I really didn't expect any here, I do understand that everybody is upset, and to be honest, I'm NOT saying I think this is a winning strategy,, but it is at least a strategy,,, and while one commenter stated that Trump is likely "bluffing",, its NOT bluffing when those tariffs are actually imposed. A bluff is like the last administrations "red line in the sand", when you say something and have NO intention of following through..

As I stated previously, its fairly obvious that the President intends to reset what he feels are very poor trading terms.. to be honest, I think President Xi and President Trump likely respect one another, and I believe that they will "get it figured out",, I think the tariffs are honestly just the President calling a "foul".

It happens in every basketball game? (I know some of you are basketball fans),, sometimes the ref gives you the ball, other times he gives you a free throw or two? so in short, I'm sure President Trump and President Xi are talking,,, and I think before its all over, everybody might be more satisfied with the terms of our trade agreements..

that's all, I don't think this is "deal breaker", I think its a "deal maker", and I'm sure President Trump has a positive outcome in mind, lets wait and see??
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
What happened to decent,generous and high integrity of american politician.Seem these days they are disappearing instead you have this fake news fabricator,mean taking the stage in American politicThe spiritual emminence grise of trade war Peter Navarro
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Navarro’s snake oil will sicken the world
By
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MARCH 24, 2018 1:18 PM (UTC+8)
Why would a Harvard PhD economist and tenured university professor make ridiculous assertions about China that no self-respecting economist would claim ownership of?

This question is hanging over prominent China-basher and director of the White House National Trade Council, Peter Navarro.

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I went for answers to Professor John Graham, who had been Navarro’s colleague at the University of California at Irvine’s Paul Merage School of Business. He joined the faculty in 1989, the same year as Navarro. Now that Navarro has left to join the Trump administration, Graham has taken over Navarro’s course on China.

“I am not sure I know why,” Graham said. “In sum, the three books he’s written about China are xenophobic trash. They contain some truths, but Navarro cherry-picks the data to prove his points. Ultimately it’s nothing but yellow journalism.”

Graham went on to say, “Navarro has no first-hand familiarity of China, doesn’t show any understanding of China and doesn’t speak Chinese. When asked how many times he’s been to China, he evades and doesn’t answer.”

A former UC Irvine professor and colleague confirmed this, saying, “He generally avoided people who actually knew something about the country.”

Needed help to teach a course on China
After publishing several China-related books, Navarro decided to create his own course on China relations, named “China and the Global Order.” When Benjamin Leffel, a China specialist and sociology PhD student at UC Irvine, became aware of Navarro’s writings, he reached out to him and questioned his views.

The meeting led to Navarro asking Leffel to act as the counterweight in his China class. Leffel created most of the syllabus using respected academic material in China studies, Navarro’s contribution being his own book and documentary.

Leffel wanted to throw out Navarro’s materials; Navarro did not agree. (After Navarro joined the Trump administration, Leffel and Graham discarded his material from the syllabus.) Despite such a frontal disagreement, Navarro kept Leffel as his instructor and teaching assistant, who in fact did most of the teaching – and who exhaustively corrected the falsehoods and exaggerations found in Navarro’s material.

I asked Leffel how he would summarize his experience working with Navarro. He said: “It was a tense but successful exercise in working with someone with radically different views, something we need now more than ever.”

Graham speculated that perhaps Navarro was motivated by TV exposure; his books and video documentary were calculated to get him media attention. That was an insightful observation.

Peter Navarro – Gordon Chang wanna-be?
Indeed, Navarro may have taken a page from Gordon Chang’s playbook. Chang published The Coming Collapse of China in 2001. In view of China quadrupling the size of its economy since that publication, Chang should have eggs all over his face.

Instead, Navarro can see that his friend became a media darling and is frequently interviewed about his views on China. The so-called fake-news people, those we would otherwise consider as mainstream media, know that they can always count on Chang to give a colorful and negative point of view about China.

Navarro has taken China-bashing as the road to success to another level. He writes better than Chang, is more telegenic and has resources to tap that are not available to Chang. The Nucor Foundation gave him US$1 million to turn his book into a documentary, which he then premiered from coast to coast in the US.

Chang attended those premieres and celebrated with selfies taken with Navarro. Sometime between Chang’s book in 2001 and Navarro’s Death by China in 2011, they have become fast friends.

To celebrate their friendship, Navarro even wrote
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called “The revenge of Gordon Chang and The Coming Collapse of China?” The piece also appeared under a different title in
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on May 7, 2016.

When it comes to China, Navarro is not driven by facts and has no desire to write with authenticity and scholarship. To my knowledge, none of his papers on China have been published in peer-reviewed, prestigious academic or professional journals.

During the 2016 presidential election, he co-authored with Wilbur Ross an economic plan for the upcoming administration of Donald Trump. A public
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, including 19 Nobel laureates, labeled the plan an unmitigated disaster.

Despite such condemnation, Navarro now stands as the key economic whisperer to President Trump.

A five-time loser in politics
In his earlier life, Navarro ran unsuccessfully for political office. He came within a whisker of becoming the mayor of San Diego, the second-largest city of California. That was his first attempt running for public office, and he led the all-party primary field with 38.2% of the votes.

In the general-election runoff in 1992, it was his election to lose – and lose he did. Running as an independent, he launched vicious attacks on his Republican opponent, Susan Golding, reducing her to tears in the last televised debate. The voters turned against Navarro.

He would run for various offices in San Diego four more times. Each time, his campaign tactics were nastier than the previous. Mudslinging was his standard procedure.

When Navarro was first announced as joining the Trump administration, The San Diego Union Tribune published a
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of his past association with the city. The headline read, “How many San Diego elections did Trump trade adviser Navarro lose?”

Charlie Cook, a nationally recognized political analyst, met Navarro once and
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him as one of the most obnoxious political candidates he has ever met. In one election post-mortem, Navarro admitted, “I don’t have any concerns at all about making stuff up about my opponent that isn’t exactly true.”

When asked why he began to pay attention to China, his reply was that it was that he had noticed some of his students were losing jobs to China. Factory workers might lose jobs when plants shut down, but MBA students don’t lose jobs to China. Nice try, Peter.

The news media are in part responsible for enabling a five-time political loser to join the inner sanctum of Trump’s White House. When Navarro spouts nonsense, it’s the responsibility of the media to challenge his assertions rather than giving him a free pass.

Now Navarro is part of the team steering US economic policy. It’s too early to tell whether he will be a mere transitory blip in history or an unmitigated disaster as feared by many. If Trump really listens to him, only the Almighty can save us. Trump has just announced tariff duties on up to $60 billion worth of goods from China. That’s not an encouraging development.
 
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