The World's 4th, 4.5 & 5th Generation Fighters
- Thread starter Semi-Lobster
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FriedRiceNSpice
Captain
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market
Well, looks like another aircraft superior to the J-10A may end up in Asia soon =[
I wonder exactly how stealthy they can make the F-15 without major redesigns. I don't what to think of the claim regarding its front-view RCS relative to the F-35. Either the F-35 is truly not very stealthy, or this new F-15 has substantially higher RCS when viewed from the sides or back. Even with internal weapons carriage, I doubt the basic design of this aircraft will surpass that of the Rafale, EF-2000, or Gripen in stealthiness. If I had to guess I'd say in terms of stealth it will be in the same ballpark as the latest F-16s (in terms of external design, for the stealthy coating can just as easily be applied to the F-16). I think that the lowest RCS found on the F-16 is around 0.5m squared.
On another note, I wonder if it was possible for Boeing to continue development with their own JSF contender, make some changes, and then market it as F-35 alternative?
Finally, $100 million per unit? And its a low-cost alternative to the F-35?
Well, looks like another aircraft superior to the J-10A may end up in Asia soon =[
I wonder exactly how stealthy they can make the F-15 without major redesigns. I don't what to think of the claim regarding its front-view RCS relative to the F-35. Either the F-35 is truly not very stealthy, or this new F-15 has substantially higher RCS when viewed from the sides or back. Even with internal weapons carriage, I doubt the basic design of this aircraft will surpass that of the Rafale, EF-2000, or Gripen in stealthiness. If I had to guess I'd say in terms of stealth it will be in the same ballpark as the latest F-16s (in terms of external design, for the stealthy coating can just as easily be applied to the F-16). I think that the lowest RCS found on the F-16 is around 0.5m squared.
On another note, I wonder if it was possible for Boeing to continue development with their own JSF contender, make some changes, and then market it as F-35 alternative?
Finally, $100 million per unit? And its a low-cost alternative to the F-35?
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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market
early production f35's are going too chomp up more then later one's one projection i read said as much as 200mill a pop but that is because of laying the logistical pipe line needed later that price will drop; that and the current Jobs kept by keeping the f22 line open are two reasons Congress keeps buying F22's.
this seems is aimed at air Superiority customers who already have F15's or are looking for a alternative too Russian Sohkoi's and Eurofighters. country's like South korea, Japan, Singapore, the Saudi's and even some JSF customers who are looking for the High in the High low Formation. In other words the Joint strike Fighter is just that a Strike fighter although capable of dogfighting it's more of a Close support bomber,
The F15 in a sleek configuration is a fast and nimble mover though not capable of the same kinds of moves as Sohkoi's or Raptor's it can out run them in a dash, normally though it has too be Stripped too get the speed too really move; but if the weapons are internal and drag is minimized on the external airframe then this should be close too that kind of clean configuration meaning that it can use almost all of the Eagles power thats a second reason why American Fighters are going too internal weapons it cuts drag on the airframe. but super cruise means that the Raptor can out pace ( she's a distance runner as apposed too a speed runner) the Eagle so I wounder if some work is on going too Super cruise the SE?
From a concept point of view this is no Raptor killer nor a JSF destroyer, it's an alternative in the same vain as the Su30Mk's, A Fast Heavy air to air Fighter for nations who feel a need for such things.
early production f35's are going too chomp up more then later one's one projection i read said as much as 200mill a pop but that is because of laying the logistical pipe line needed later that price will drop; that and the current Jobs kept by keeping the f22 line open are two reasons Congress keeps buying F22's.
this seems is aimed at air Superiority customers who already have F15's or are looking for a alternative too Russian Sohkoi's and Eurofighters. country's like South korea, Japan, Singapore, the Saudi's and even some JSF customers who are looking for the High in the High low Formation. In other words the Joint strike Fighter is just that a Strike fighter although capable of dogfighting it's more of a Close support bomber,
The F15 in a sleek configuration is a fast and nimble mover though not capable of the same kinds of moves as Sohkoi's or Raptor's it can out run them in a dash, normally though it has too be Stripped too get the speed too really move; but if the weapons are internal and drag is minimized on the external airframe then this should be close too that kind of clean configuration meaning that it can use almost all of the Eagles power thats a second reason why American Fighters are going too internal weapons it cuts drag on the airframe. but super cruise means that the Raptor can out pace ( she's a distance runner as apposed too a speed runner) the Eagle so I wounder if some work is on going too Super cruise the SE?
From a concept point of view this is no Raptor killer nor a JSF destroyer, it's an alternative in the same vain as the Su30Mk's, A Fast Heavy air to air Fighter for nations who feel a need for such things.
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market
First off ..welcome back IDonT!!
Interesting article. Boeing must feel that this aircraft will suit those countries looking to upgrade their fighters without going to the expensive purchase of an F-22 ..which is not for sale at this time.. Or sinking money into R&D for a 4.5 or 5th generation fighter program.
First off ..welcome back IDonT!!
Interesting article. Boeing must feel that this aircraft will suit those countries looking to upgrade their fighters without going to the expensive purchase of an F-22 ..which is not for sale at this time.. Or sinking money into R&D for a 4.5 or 5th generation fighter program.
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market
What I'd like to know is how many external hardpoints have to be sacrificed to install the new weapon bay CFTs. Or how many can she carry internally. With an aircraft that size, I'm quiet sure there will be more weapons on board then on a F-35.
With all those upgrades, I see no reason why Boeing could not also install TVC engines with more thrust. That would bring the SE even closer to being able to substitute the Raptor for foreign customers.
And maybe it's a way for the USAF to go and replace older A-D models when they can't get more F-22.
I also do believe there's a limit for RCS reduction from side apsects on that plane, but there should be enough space in it to carry a good self protection EW suite.
Actually, I'm wondering if the Eagle couldn't become for the USAF what the Growler is for the navy.
What I'd like to know is how many external hardpoints have to be sacrificed to install the new weapon bay CFTs. Or how many can she carry internally. With an aircraft that size, I'm quiet sure there will be more weapons on board then on a F-35.
With all those upgrades, I see no reason why Boeing could not also install TVC engines with more thrust. That would bring the SE even closer to being able to substitute the Raptor for foreign customers.
And maybe it's a way for the USAF to go and replace older A-D models when they can't get more F-22.
I also do believe there's a limit for RCS reduction from side apsects on that plane, but there should be enough space in it to carry a good self protection EW suite.
Actually, I'm wondering if the Eagle couldn't become for the USAF what the Growler is for the navy.
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market
The CFT are already in place in the current F-15E. They add about 20 percent endurance. What is nifty is that this version of the F-15 can be change depending on the threat level.
At higher threat, the low-observable route is taken. The CFT is replaced with the weapons bay. This trade range and ordanance for a low observable profile. Once air superiority is achieve, CFT is bolted back on (about 2.5 hours to do) and you have your F-15E with similar range and ordinance.
The level of low observability is also dependant on what Uncle Sam will approve. Japan and Israel may have all the bells and whistles while Saudi Arabia may have a less stealthy version.
BD...good to be back.
The CFT are already in place in the current F-15E. They add about 20 percent endurance. What is nifty is that this version of the F-15 can be change depending on the threat level.
At higher threat, the low-observable route is taken. The CFT is replaced with the weapons bay. This trade range and ordanance for a low observable profile. Once air superiority is achieve, CFT is bolted back on (about 2.5 hours to do) and you have your F-15E with similar range and ordinance.
The level of low observability is also dependant on what Uncle Sam will approve. Japan and Israel may have all the bells and whistles while Saudi Arabia may have a less stealthy version.
BD...good to be back.
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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market
an though happened after reading about this thing.
If they can do this too the Eagle; they the guys at eurofighter have no excuses.
now think about it? you see my point? it lacks two of the features that it's likely counters the SU37 and PAKfa are agreed too mostlikely have,
yes it has (or rather will have) missiles that will extend it's lethality over the sky's but when compared too the Raptor it's lacking in stealth and some what in maneuverability now why is it the guys over at eurofighter never thought of this?
the EF2000 is one of the worlds most wanted aircraft, I hope the guy's over at eurofighter are pulling out there drawing boards and taking notes.
an though happened after reading about this thing.
If they can do this too the Eagle; they the guys at eurofighter have no excuses.
now think about it? you see my point? it lacks two of the features that it's likely counters the SU37 and PAKfa are agreed too mostlikely have,
yes it has (or rather will have) missiles that will extend it's lethality over the sky's but when compared too the Raptor it's lacking in stealth and some what in maneuverability now why is it the guys over at eurofighter never thought of this?
the EF2000 is one of the worlds most wanted aircraft, I hope the guy's over at eurofighter are pulling out there drawing boards and taking notes.
bigstick61
Junior Member
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market
They should at least offer thrust-vectoring engines as an option. The F-15 actually has used them in an experimental model which tested the concept in a fighter of that class, the F-15 S/MTD. It's quite feasible from what I've read.
They should at least offer thrust-vectoring engines as an option. The F-15 actually has used them in an experimental model which tested the concept in a fighter of that class, the F-15 S/MTD. It's quite feasible from what I've read.
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market
"We can't export the F-22, so we'll give you a F-15 in new paint job instead" -- Boeing
A lot of money and time was invested into the F-15 platform, and few nations are equipped with anything comparable or better. I won't blame Boeing from trying to milk as much as they can out of it before it's rendered obsolete by stealth fighters.
Can anyone think of another 4th gen fighter with more air to air victories than the F-15?
"We can't export the F-22, so we'll give you a F-15 in new paint job instead" -- Boeing
A lot of money and time was invested into the F-15 platform, and few nations are equipped with anything comparable or better. I won't blame Boeing from trying to milk as much as they can out of it before it's rendered obsolete by stealth fighters.
Can anyone think of another 4th gen fighter with more air to air victories than the F-15?
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market
No, the only fighters of this generation that have seen much combat are as far I remember the other American F-teen series (F-18, F-16), and the MiG-29 and Su-27 (in Iraq, Serbia and against each other in Ethiopia/Eritrea).
No, the only fighters of this generation that have seen much combat are as far I remember the other American F-teen series (F-18, F-16), and the MiG-29 and Su-27 (in Iraq, Serbia and against each other in Ethiopia/Eritrea).