The War in the Ukraine

Stealthflanker · Oct 22, 2022

vincent said:
HiMARS can move away right after finish firing its rockets.
The only ways to destroy HiMARS are catching them at the warehouse or use UAV like Predators or Caihong (search and destroy).

I'm kinda think of the usual counter-battery scheme using Radar, pick the rocket in flight and determine the launch position from there and then launch Tochka with cluser warhead.

Ideally it should start right after the first rocket breaks the horizon as that is the first opportunity of detection, where rocket will show its Sides which have Large RCS. So when the Ballistic missile arrived the launcher will hopefully still be in vicinity. But yeah i guess it's way too sensitive to bureaucracy/chain of command issues.

The UAV patrol can work except that they will have to be deep within the enemy territory and take considerable time to search for target and may not be in the right place when the battery starts firing.

vincent · Oct 22, 2022

Stealthflanker said:
I'm kinda think of the usual counter-battery scheme using Radar, pick the rocket in flight and determine the launch position from there and then launch Tochka with cluser warhead.

Ideally it should start right after the first rocket breaks the horizon as that is the first opportunity of detection, where rocket will show its Sides which have Large RCS. So when the Ballistic missile arrived the launcher will hopefully still be in vicinity. But yeah i guess it's way too sensitive to bureaucracy/chain of command issues.

The UAV patrol can work except that they will have to be deep within the enemy territory and take considerable time to search for target and may not be in the right place when the battery starts firing.

Each HiMARS can only carry one pod of six rockets. It can probably fire all of them in 30 seconds and then run away. Counter-battery will not work.

One needs to establish absolute air dominance, use lots of E-8 type of platforms to survey the battlefield and have a large number of armed UAV to cover a vast distance in order to destroy HiMARS

Anlsvrthng · Oct 22, 2022

sheogorath said:
I seriously doubt you can procure and install transformers faster than Kh-101 and Shahed's can be built, but I have no idea about anything of it.

The Russians could just still hit the CHP's themselves, should push come to shove, and there is no way you could replace that in a sensible amount of time

The 720 kV transformers, but the 110kv ones are not commodities, they designed on order, and takes at least half year to make from the arrival of order, if a company willing to pay huge premium .

These are 300 tons monsters, composition of copper - magnetic steel - oil and lot of bushing (the ceramic thingis connecting it to the grid)

If the oil leaked from the transformer, but the coils/insulation not damaged then the simple refilling takes one week, with an experienced team.

If a coil damaged then it needs disassembly, lift out with a high, few hundre tons capacity crane, disassemblz the core and repair it.

Problem is these cores are not made from standard wires, but rather special, made to order , square cross section wires.

Means if one damaged then it is not like getting one new wire from the warehouse, but rather orderin the stones to pull the new wires, and afterwards pulling the wires, insulating them and that is teh point when you can start the repair itself.

Sometime the low voltage part made from CTC (continously transposed wire) , that is even more time consuming and more complicated to make.

However before 90 , in the eastern block it was quite uncommon to use CTC.

Interesting fact, the big transformers use oil soaked paper and wood as insulation, and both of of the very combustive.

This is the makeing of the wining of one power tranformer. A partially damaged winding , or even if the short is in the middle of the winding needs to be rewinded .

This is a power transformer active core before lifting into the housing, it needs to spend good few days in a vacuum chamber to dry out the paper and wood.

Zichan · Oct 22, 2022

gelgoog said:
The MiG-31BM is an upgrade which entered service in the late 2000s. It has improved digital avionics more modern than those in Western 1990s fighter aircraft. Even the original MiG-31 had a digital datalink to communicate targets between aircraft. A lot of the flight instruments were replaced with MFDs. But you seem to think it is worse than the Su-27SM3. Whatever.

Russia has hundreds more non-upgraded Su-27 and MiG-29 in storage they can pullout and upgrade.

In late 2020 Russia had 98 Su-35S aircraft. And right now they have more than that.
Russia had 117 Su-30SM/SM2 before the conflict started. Including 4 Su-30SM2.

More like 7 A-50U aircraft before the war started.

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There are "only" 12 visually confirmed downings of Su-34 aircraft. I won't even bother looking into actual Su-30SM losses which are also bound to be lower. But whatever.

So let me get this.
- You think Russian pilots cannot fight because they "only" had a decade to train with their new fighters.
- You think the MiG-31 can only be used to intercept cruise missiles.

I will also add that the West has had many, many, years to examine Russian air defense operations in Syria which includes the Tor, Pantsir, and S-400. Russian EW has been exported to Western friendly nations like Malaysia and there is little evidence the systems Russia itself uses are substantially dissimilar. And yet when the conflict started the Western military did not want to even try to impose an air exclusion zone over Ukraine. Guess why? You seem to think learning things which were already known makes some kind of difference. Well it does not.

And good luck operating from 1000km distance bases when systems like the Kinzhal, Kalibr have over 2000km range.

The reason why NATO did not impose a no-fly zone is because that would have required striking Russian assets on the ground in both Ukraine and Russia, turning a proxy war into a direct war.

pmc · Oct 22, 2022

Stealthflanker said:
I'm kinda think of the usual counter-battery scheme using Radar, pick the rocket in flight and determine the launch position from there and then launch Tochka with cluser warhead.

Ideally it should start right after the first rocket breaks the horizon as that is the first opportunity of detection, where rocket will show its Sides which have Large RCS. So when the Ballistic missile arrived the launcher will hopefully still be in vicinity. But yeah i guess it's way too sensitive to bureaucracy/chain of command issues.

The UAV patrol can work except that they will have to be deep within the enemy territory and take considerable time to search for target and may not be in the right place when the battery starts firing.

i have only seen 3 launchers all going vertically upward like BM missile which is unlike other rocket system.
i dont think ukraine has that many at one place to create saturated attack that can effectively overwhelm battlefield air defenses.

SolarWarden · Oct 22, 2022

pmc said:
i have only seen 3 launchers all going vertically upward like BM missile which is unlike other rocket system.
i dont think ukraine has that many at one place to create saturated attack that can effectively overwhelm battlefield air defenses.

They've been overwhelming battlefield air defenses quite nicely. When Ukraine targeted the Kherson Bridge you can see Russian TOR's or Pantsyr's trying to knock them out to no avail. Bridge got killed.

pmc · Oct 22, 2022

SolarWarden said:
They've been overwhelming battlefield air defenses quite nicely. When Ukraine targeted the Kherson Bridge you can see Russian TOR's or Pantsyr's trying to knock them out to no avail. Bridge got killed.

i doubt there will be enough air defenses near bridge unless forces actively using it. it still a fix target. even kamkize UAV has more range and effectiveness than HIMAR.

this a tank hit with a rocket.

Sinnavuuty · Oct 22, 2022

tabu said:
The superpower is begging for mopeds from Iran. Launches a program to "revive the T 62". Calling up the mobilized and arming them with three-liners and AKMs.

it is producing under license in Russia, much cheaper than missiles and also faster construction, they are great for overloading the Ukrainian air defense and also western that will be sent to Kiev, since they are sending the leftovers to the regime from Zelensky (to the last Ukrainian).

T-62 will be of great value to the national guard and perhaps the LDNR fighters, they spent 8 years controlling most of the Donbas practically alone against the semi-bankrupt Ukraine, a great increase in capability if they are strengthened with T-62M with its 115mm cannon, while NATO/EU sends junk like the M113 that are neutralized by BTR-82A with a 30mm cannon, imagine what they can do with a T-62M whose main job will be infantry support or who knows they might be sent to Syria.

MOD edit: deleted escalatory statements

Sinnavuuty · Oct 22, 2022

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583564169168965632

TRML-4D uses AESA which allows target acquisition after just one antenna rotation, thus improving response time and hit probability, even in a complex environment with high target density and involving highly agile and asymmetric threats.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583516853644668928

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The source claims that the Su-57 fighter appeared and shot down a Ukrainian Su-27 with the R-37M

The intercept scenario:
Indeed, some sources say that a Su-57 would have shot down a Russian-made Ukrainian Su-27 aircraft with a Russian R-37M long-range hypersonic air-to-air missile, when it climbed above safe flight height to try to intercept a of Iranian kamikaze drones that Russia is launching against targets in Ukraine. Russian media indicate that the demolition would have taken place near the town of Porskalivka, in the Poltava region. This fact would have been reflected in a report by the Russian Ministry of Defense itself on the “special operation” dated 13 October.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582661420642336770

Atomicfrog · Oct 22, 2022

Sinnavuuty said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583564169168965632
TRML-4D uses AESA which allows target acquisition after just one antenna rotation, thus improving response time and hit probability, even in a complex environment with high target density and involving highly agile and asymmetric threats.

TRML-4D radar system for missile defense ? It will be used with their IRIS-T, by October 12, 2022, Ukraine was believed to have received 24 missiles... after one night hunting drones arround Kyev, it's all over for that system and need resupply ... how many more they received ???

The War in the Ukraine

Stealthflanker

Senior Member

vincent

Grumpy Old Man

Anlsvrthng

Captain

Zichan

Junior Member

pmc

Colonel

SolarWarden

Junior Member

pmc

Colonel

Sinnavuuty

Captain

Sinnavuuty

Captain

Atomicfrog

Major