The War in the Ukraine

Aegis21

Aegis21

Junior Member
Registered Member
RottenPanzer said:
A supposed document leak directly from Armed Forces of Ukraine:

Ukrainian channels are discussing what might be a leaked data from AFU General Staff:

- The AFU are only 43-48% complete;
- medical workers at the limit of their strength: the seriously wounded are transported to Europe;
- small arms and bulletproof vests are not enough;
- about 191 thousand soldiers were killed and wounded;
- there is not enough hydraulics and liquid nitrogen for M777 howitzers;
- no one cares about the missing - there are no statistics;
- the equipment transferred by the West is running out;
- Western weapons are operated by amateurs, since there are no qualified specialists;
- there is no way to repair weapons on the spot due to the lack of spare parts and specialists - everything is sent to Poland;
– the moral and psychological state of the Ukrainian military is practically at zero: even campaigns of encouragement in social networks and concerts do not help.

Thus, judging by the leaked information, the Armed Forces of Ukraine in their deplorable state will not last long.

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It seems 191k casualties for AFU seems a bit too far fetched in my opinion...
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I would be very skeptical of these numbers, both sides release “intercepted calls,” “captured documents,” etc.

There was a Russian fake going around earlier that Ukrainians would mobilize women on Jun 31 (date doesn’t exist). Also the whole thing in the beginning of the war where Ukrainians claimed they captured Russian battle plans and ”intercepted” what turned out to be a bunch of fake calls.
 
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Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
Aegis21 said:
I would be very skeptical of these numbers, both sides release “intercepted calls,” “captured documents,” etc.

There was a Russian fake going around earlier that Ukrainians would mobilize women on Jun 31 (date doesn’t exist). Also the whole thing in the beginning of the war where Ukrainians claimed they captured Russian battle plans and ”intercepted” what turned out to be a bunch of fake calls.
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The timing is interesting. Those claims from the Ukrainian side was when the Russian were given back a lot of ground. It was probably to sever Russian morale and up theirs. Now it look like it's Ukraine side that crumble and Russian are pulling some of the same trick ?

Numbers are difficults to read in the fog of war... even more when the two armies use look alike gears. Only the fact on the map more or less counts.

A couple of video of trashed equipment cannot give us the scale of that war. The number of most equipments types used was and probably still in the thousands. It's not the Canadian army out there with only a dozen of MBT and Howitzer... A video of a dozen of tank blowing up is nothing but is still impressing.
 
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Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
After all discussion about the 777 vs soviet equipment I wandering about the usage of labels like "advanced", "modern" , "simple" , "robust", "primitive"


Looks like the soviet equipment is more advanced, has more design and testing in them, and they has matured design fitting the war needs.


Sounds like compare a simple, safe rally card without any entertainment or comfort system to a small Fiat 500 with aircon and 12" LCD , and with netflix subscription.


The later shine regards of entertrainment value , more comfortable, so if I have to choose I would sit in the fiat 500 in the trafic jamm, or commute in the city.

However on a rally the purpose built, simple rally car better choice.
 
sheogorath

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
Anlsvrthng said:
Looks like the soviet equipment is more advanced, has more design and testing in them, and they has matured design fitting the war needs.
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I wouldn't say more advanced but at this point it can be said that soviet equipment was designed to fight a war against people who could shoot back.

Western equipment from the 1980's onwards seems to have been designed to fire on peasants and brown people with shoddy AK's and then go home for the weekends.
 
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Surpluswarrior

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Well, let's take the example of the AK-series: There's a lot of ink been spilled about AK-47 vs. M-16.

It's my understanding that the Russian army sometimes comes under criticism for being anachronistic or conservative, because it has 'strange' requirements that keep the AK in service. For instance, IIRC one such requirement is that the rifle can be used to support the weight of an infantryman exiting a trench, held horizontally.

At least, that's what one video of exercises demonstrated.

That doesn't seem so crazy now, with what is happening in Ukraine. The ease of maintenance of an AK and robustness would be ideal in a war where you are being pounded with artillery fire in a trench all day long, and explosives are 85% of the danger you face.

I think that modern, streamlined rifles like what China is developing are the way forward. But I have heard experienced military personnel, in-person, doubting how well the M-16 would stand up to trench warfare [this was years ago]. So for a dirty, messy war where dirt is being bounced all around you, the rugged robust and relatively simple construction of an AK can be a benefit over more 'sophisticated' systems. [This advantage is diminished if you are using fragile sights on your AK, but I haven't seen too much of that in Ukraine videos.]

[Probably a larger-calibre, simplified piston AR is the future, although Russians keep updating the AK.]
 
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