The War in the Ukraine

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
He was attacked at the end of March, confirmed by the Ukrainian authorities at the time

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What's the point of these whining against Russian alleged or not alleged atrocities when the other side is equally atrocious? Let's not pretend that Ukrainians are angels and only the Russians are monsters and Putin is Hitler and Stalin incarnated.

Let's accept the fact that war is hell and there are no angels in this conflict so get off your moral high horse and look at the conflict objectively and not through the lense of Russia bad and Ukraine good, West/NATO is a defensive alliance because the vast majority of the people around the world knows that's just a bunch of b.s.

Let's get back to war analysis and enough of this moralizing fairy tale you folks love to indulge with.
 

Yommie

Junior Member
Registered Member
I wonder which european country will be dumb enough to give it's F-16's away just to please the US and hope to score some F-35's for free. Probably the poles, or the dutchs

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F-16 won't make an impact. Considering Kiev regime soldiers are fighting and dying for American interests, Americans should not be penny pinchers and spend 10 trillion dollars to buy F-35 jets for Kiev regime fighter pilots.
 

Sheleah

Junior Member
Registered Member
What's the point of these whining against Russian alleged or not alleged atrocities when the other side is equally atrocious? Let's not pretend that Ukrainians are angels and only the Russians are monsters and Putin is Hitler and Stalin incarnated.

Let's accept the fact that war is hell and there are no angels in this conflict so get off your moral high horse and look at the conflict objectively and not through the lense of Russia bad and Ukraine good, West/NATO is a defensive alliance because the vast majority of the people around the world knows that's just a bunch of b.s.

Let's get back to war analysis and enough of this moralizing fairy tale you folks love to indulge with.
You must learn to read, to have reading comprehension and then learn to debate in these forums, obviously it is not something you can brag about

No, it's just a whimper, someone was unaware of the fact that the air force headquarters in Vinnytsia had already been bombed the day before yesterday, and I have simply shown him that since March there have been attacks on that place, and later there have been others more, although the Ukrainian defenses have been able to respond effectively

If you think this is a sheep club where everyone should share the same opinion, I'm sorry.
 

delta115

Junior Member
Registered Member
I wonder which european country will be dumb enough to give it's F-16's away just to please the US and hope to score some F-35's for free. Probably the poles, or the dutchs

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Since I doubt that US gonna give their shiny new F-16V for Ukraine. I gonna assume they would likely at best get Block 52. While Block 52 is capable fighter and better than Mig-29. I doubt it's a game changer as they hope for.

If F-16 are deployed in Ukraine then Russian might increase their deployment of air defense system or air force. They might even rain down their missile on suspected airport/base.

Beside... don't think it will look good on Lockheed if somehow SU-30/35 got their "Falcon Killer" or having some of F-16 taken out by S-300. Not to mention the rumor about HIMARS got sold to Russian.
 

Yommie

Junior Member
Registered Member
Since I doubt that US gonna give their shiny new F-16V for Ukraine. I gonna assume they would likely at best get Block 52. While Block 52 is capable fighter and better than Mig-29. I doubt it's a game changer as they hope for.

If F-16 are deployed in Ukraine then Russian might increase their deployment of air defense system or air force. They might even rain down their missile on suspected airport/base.

Beside... don't think it will look good on Lockheed if somehow SU-30/35 got their "Falcon Killer" or having some of F-16 taken out by S-300. Not to mention the rumor about HIMARS got sold to Russian.

F-16 is easy target for Su-57. Imagine F-16 getting downed in Ukraine by Su-57. That is big sales booster for Su-57, sales suppressor for F-16. F-16 also don't have the range to reach Donbas from western Ukraine and any airbase will get saturated by cruise missiles. F-16 will have to operate from Poland and for that they would require aerial refueling. That would put the US as an active belligerent in the war.
 

Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
If F-16 are deployed in Ukraine then Russian might increase their deployment of air defense system or air force. They might even rain down their missile on suspected airport/base.

I would love to see the air force or air defense actually happens. Especially on Black Sea theater. One way for Russians to prevent disaster like Tavrida, Moskva and Snake island was increased air support. There should always be CAP on top of their troops picking Ukrainian fighters or UAV's.

F-16 is easy target for Su-57. Imagine F-16 getting downed in Ukraine by Su-57. That is big sales booster for Su-57, sales suppressor for F-16.

nonono..this wont happen F-16 already have well established market. Even some of them got shot down, there will still people wanting to buy new F-16's. procurement of arms is far beyond whether an aircraft got shotdown.

Since I doubt that US gonna give their shiny new F-16V for Ukraine. I gonna assume they would likely at best get Block 52. While Block 52 is capable fighter and better than Mig-29. I doubt it's a game changer as they hope for.

The concern is that whether US will also allow deployment of Standoff weapon to F-16's. say a GBU-39. it will outrange any Medium Russian SAM's. also it can be carried in considerable numbers, saturating Pantsyr and Tor's.

Worse if JASSM is cleared this will allow very deep strike to Russian mainland itself. It will also put the F-16's far from Russian SAM's.

The biggest advantage however with the F-16 or NATO fighters is that the Link-16 which allows direct connection between NATO surveillance asset with the F-16's. If these assets are enough for identification. It will allow true BVR shot in maximum range of whatever A2A missile US provided for the F-16's. If the C variant of AMRAAM is provided 100 km BVR shot is not unreasonable. It doesnt have to hit but it will put Russian on defensive or terminate their attacks.
 

Yommie

Junior Member
Registered Member
I would love to see the air force or air defense actually happens. Especially on Black Sea theater. One way for Russians to prevent disaster like Tavrida, Moskva and Snake island was increased air support. There should always be CAP on top of their troops picking Ukrainian fighters or UAV's.



nonono..this wont happen F-16 already have well established market. Even some of them got shot down, there will still people wanting to buy new F-16's. procurement of arms is far beyond whether an aircraft got shotdown.



The concern is that whether US will also allow deployment of Standoff weapon to F-16's. say a GBU-39. it will outrange any Medium Russian SAM's. also it can be carried in considerable numbers, saturating Pantsyr and Tor's.

Worse if JASSM is cleared this will allow very deep strike to Russian mainland itself. It will also put the F-16's far from Russian SAM's.

The biggest advantage however with the F-16 or NATO fighters is that the Link-16 which allows direct connection between NATO surveillance asset with the F-16's. If these assets are enough for identification. It will allow true BVR shot in maximum range of whatever A2A missile US provided for the F-16's. If the C variant of AMRAAM is provided 100 km BVR shot is not unreasonable. It doesnt have to hit but it will put Russian on defensive or terminate their attacks.

If F-16 operates from Poland with aerial refueling then that airbase becomes legitimate target for cruise missiles.
 
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