The War in the Ukraine

Hi,
probably for FSB old days are over when they use to be KGB, Ukrainian including
NATO been planning this for the last 18 months or so & FSB hounds were sleeping
Russian can’t even target something important in KIEV or surrounding with their
missiles and bombing, that’s why in past and now in present Ukrainian are doing
their best to humiliate the Russian might.
Putin really need to end this war quickly otherwise might of Russia will be lost for ever
and that end can be in terms of give and take something
thank you

defenceman said:

Hi,
probably for FSB old days are over when they use to be KGB, Ukrainian including
NATO been planning this for the last 18 months or so & FSB hounds were sleeping
Russian can’t even target something important in KIEV or surrounding with their
missiles and bombing, that’s why in past and now in present Ukrainian are doing
their best to humiliate the Russian might.
Putin really need to end this war quickly otherwise might of Russia will be lost for ever
and that end can be in terms of give and take something
thank you

Click to expand...

Hopefully he will listen to reason. However, I doubt he will. Afterall, since he bacame a dictator /president for life there is no sane official in Russian government can contradict or offer a different alternative to any Putin's policy for fear of being targeted as well or seen otherwise. You can only do so at your own peril. So he has long surrounded himself with "YES MEN" which is very detrimental for any leader in decision making. Moreover, politically it might also affect his strong man image to be honest. So I think he's in a predicament as well. I sympathise with him in this regard. He has already gone too far and also all the announcement to the public of the country fighting a just war and how they will triumph over Ukraine and NATO. How will he explain things to those who bought his slogans if he had to sign a seizefire and stop all hostilities. It will be as if the country suffered so much materially and most of all manpower wise(alot of young Russians died and are still dying in this useless conflict) for basically little gain if he had to stop now. So it will be kinda of a dilemma for him if he had to stop now, which I understand. . Afterall, he hasn't met much of his objectives he set before the war.

Finally, the longer this war continues the better for China and the US. A weaker Russia is good for both, even more so for China. Afterall, this will push Russia to rely more on China eventhough they have long being reluctant to do so. The longer the war goes and depletes their resources /manpower etc the better for China. Russia has often tend to even favour relations with the West than with China. This war has made them to grudgingly redirect their economic and political ties towards China. So China should continue doing what they have been doing i. e staying away from providing meaningful military aid (unlike Iran/N. KOREA) and keep relations focused more on trade and political. This will ensure Russia will not depreciate economically to a point of no return while still keeping the country in the war and keeping the country even more reliant of good relations with Beijing. The ideal situation for China here will be for Russia to become like Canada for the US, afterall, no great power wants a powerful neighbour at her border. So there is no disadvantage for China here, only advantages.
So don't feel bad for them. There is no morality or friends in geopolitics, only interests.

Michael90 said:

Hopefully he will listen to reason. However, I doubt he will. Afterall, since he bacame a dictator /president for life there is no sane official in Russian government can contradict or offer a different alternative to any Putin's policy for fear of being targeted as well or seen otherwise. You can only do so at your own peril. So he has long surrounded himself with "YES MEN" which is very detrimental for any leader in decision making. Moreover, politically it might also affect his strong man image to be honest. So I think he's in a predicament as well. I sympathise with him in this regard. He has already gone too far and also all the announcement to the public of the country fighting a just war and how they will triumph over Ukraine and NATO. How will he explain things to those who bought his slogans if he had to sign a seizefire and stop all hostilities. It will be as if the country suffered so much materially and most of all manpower wise(alot of young Russians died and are still dying in this useless conflict) for basically little gain if he had to stop now. So it will be kinda of a dilemma for him if he had to stop now, which I understand. . Afterall, he hasn't met much of his objectives he set before the war.
Finally, the longer this war continues the better for China and the US actually. A weaker Russia is good for both, even more so for China. Afterall, this will push Russia to rely more on China eventhough they have long being reluctant to do so. The longer the war goes and depletes their resources /manpower etc the better for China. Russia has often tend to even favour relations with the West than with China. This war has made them to grudgingly redirect their economic and political ties towards China. So China should continue doing what they have been doing i. e staying away from providing meaningful military aid (unlike Iran/N. KOREA) and keep relations focused more on trade and political. This will ensure Russia will not depreciate economically to a point of no return while still keeping the country in the war and keeping the country even more reliant of good relations with Beijing. There is no disadvantage for China here, only advantages.

Click to expand...

The current roles are Russia does all cool manly hard fighting with force while China does all the boring wussy trading and financial stuff on the side.

The funny thing is Russia is willing to do it by themselves because they think they are so tough and China can't do it. China is more than happy to have this assignment. It's just worrisome that Russia is struggling quite a bit to do it's supposed specialty role properly. This is a team based thing after all.

Michael90 said:

Nonesense..thats just another Russian propaganda. There were separatists elements in those regions who took up arms to fight the state proclaiming a seperate state. Which country on earth will allow a group of separatists to decide their country(might as well let Taiwan be a country then. Lol). Its similar to Uygur separatist fighters along with East Turkestan islamic party fighters who were clamouring for Xinjiang independence from the chinese state claiming they were suppresed and descriminated against and being ethnic cleansed by the evil Han Chinese. Lol In fact many countries even started chastising China for suppressing and genociding Muslims Uygurs in China(you remember that period i hope? Lol ). Those countries also relied on US propaganda for this. Just like you rely on Russian propaganda to make similar claims in those separatist regions in ukraine. Any country faced with separatists fighters like Ukraine faced with those regions will hit back hard to try and get rid of such elements be it China, India, Pakistan, Philippines, Turkey etc all these countries already did or still do actually. So those claims you made are void.

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This is essentially a civil war in the former Soviet Union. When the Soviet Union collapsed, Russia and Ukraine were eager to be independent, and the division agreement was not very reasonable. What is completely different from western Ukraine is that the economy and culture of eastern Ukraine are very closely linked to Russia, and the size of eastern Ukraine and western Ukraine is comparable, which has led to Ukraine having to maintain a balance between Europe and Russia. When Ukraine can grasp the balance, this contradiction will not erupt. When Ukraine completely leans towards Europe, the contradiction cannot be suppressed. Ukrainian politicians (especially Yushchenko) are stupid. For the benefit of some groups, they totally swung to Europe. The mastermind behind all this is the United States which is the biggest winner, while Ukraine, Russia, and Europe are all losers.

Ukraine saw that Russia had the face to attend the negotiations, and Zelensky further rubbed it in. Seems that the you-know-who has been figured out

Michael90 said:

Nonesense..thats just another Russian propaganda. There were separatists elements in those regions who took up arms to fight the state proclaiming a seperate state.

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I see. So I'm guessing you are also against the NATO war on Yugoslavia, or Bosnia, I mean that's just suppressing separatists.

I'm assuming you'd also be supportive of Assad trying to suppress separatists as well? I vaguely remember you not being a fan of Assad murdering his own citizens and feel he should be deposed.

Michael90 said:

Which country on earth will allow a group of separatists to decide their country(might as well let Taiwan be a country then. Lol). Its similar to Uygur separatist fighters along with East Turkestan islamic party fighters who were clamouring for Xinjiang independence from the chinese state claiming they were suppresed and descriminated against and being ethnic cleansed by the evil Han Chinese. Lol In fact many countries even started chastising China for suppressing and genociding Muslims Uygurs in China(you remember that period i hope? Lol ). Those countries also relied on US propaganda for this. Just like you rely on Russian propaganda to make similar claims in those separatist regions in ukraine. Any country faced with separatists fighters like Ukraine faced with those regions will hit back hard to try and get rid of such elements be it China, India, Pakistan, Philippines, Turkey etc all these countries already did or still do actually. So those claims you made are void.

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Oh I see. So you'd be the first one to support china using force to take back Taiwan? And you wouldnt support the US it any other nation intervening then right?

Let's be clear. My claims would not be voided based on your arguments. Your interpretation of my comments are not the same.

You said that Russia should not have attacked Ukraine and used pro Russian people inside to slowly turn the country towards Russia. And my reply was that it was ignorant of what happened at Euromaidan. After Euromaidan, there was very little chance of Russia developing any influence in Ukraine. It was clear that the West used far right anti Russia groups to take over the government and integrate them more towards the EU. There was no chance Russia could have influenced them enough to make any difference. You do understand they purged all pro Russian elements in the subsequent government .

Michael90 said:

Moroever let's assume hypothetically for once that your claims were right and that Ukraine was targeting Russian speaking elements in Eastern Ukraine(be they separatists fighters or not) what is Russia's business there?

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That's not hypothetical, it acctually happened. They burned a building down with Russian people inside. Just because the propaganda you read didn't acknowledge it, doesn't mean it didn't happen

Michael90 said:

Is Ukraine not a sovereign country ? Is Russia Ukraine's policeman?lol What business do they have in Ukraine's internal affairs? Or maybe any Ukrianian Russian speaking citizen is now considered a russian citizen? LMAO . Using your silly logic China would have long invaded most of her neighbors in Asia since at some point ethic Chinese speaking populations in those countries were also targeted for various reasons. You ever saw China use that as an excuse to invade countries in asia? Lol come on, if countries want to start using such silly excuses to invade others then half of the world will be at war with each other today. Lool

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So by your logic, then technically during the Euromaidan, the pro Russian president at the time should have shot and jailed all those protesters! They were just trying to overthrow the elected government and acted as terrorists and should have been suppressed.

MortyandRick said:

I see. So I'm guessing you are also against the NATO war on Yugoslavia, or Bosnia, I mean that's just suppressing separatists.

I'm assuming you'd also be supportive of Assad trying to suppress separatists as well? I vaguely remember you not being a fan of Assad murdering his own citizens and feel he should be deposed.


Oh I see. So you'd be the first one to support china using force to take back Taiwan? And you wouldnt support the US it any other nation intervening then right?

Let's be clear. My claims would not be voided based on your arguments. Your interpretation of my comments are not the same.

You said that Russia should not have attacked Ukraine and used pro Russian people inside to slowly turn the country towards Russia. And my reply was that it was ignorant of what happened at Euromaidan. After Euromaidan, there was very little chance of Russia developing any influence in Ukraine. It was clear that the West used far right anti Russia groups to take over the government and integrate them more towards the EU. There was no chance Russia could have influenced them enough to make any difference. You do understand they purged all pro Russian elements in the subsequent government .


That's not hypothetical, it acctually happened. They burned a building down with Russian people inside. Just because the propaganda you read didn't acknowledge it, doesn't mean it didn't happen


So by your logic, then technically during the Euromaidan, the pro Russian president at the time should have shot and jailed all those protesters! They were just trying to overthrow the elected government and acted as terrorists and should have been suppressed.

Click to expand...

That is indeed the logic.

Pro west government: they are so confident in their righteousness they are willing to use force to defend truth and freedom.

Not pro west government: they are so afraid of dialogue that they resort to force! They are obviously extremely insecure in their righteousness and are willing to use force to suppress truth and freedom.

Get it?

Latest -

Ukraine launches massive drone attack on Crimea..

Battlefield observations:

Ukrainian UAV operators gets hit by a Tornado-S strike with cluster munitions. This type of strike we are seeing more frequently.


Ukrainian UAV operators camp gets hit by an X-35U antiship missile. Explosion too small to be an Iskander.


Alekseevka falls to the Russians, who now refer to the Sumy region as the Sumy People's Republic. Russians has taken scores of settlements in a week including Novopil.


Ukrainian 2S22 Bogdana SPG gets hit by FPV drones in the Kherson area. In my humble opinion, this SPG is currently the best one the Ukrainians got.


Ukrainian UAV control center hit by a Hyacinth-B howitzer in Valentinovka. Been seeing a new surge of artillery use. While Ukrainians are heavily relying on drones for defense, Russian drones relentlessly hunt for Ukrainian UAV forward operating bases, then strike them from a long list of means.


Ukrainian field ammo depot taken out by a MSTA-B howitzer of the 238th in the Shcherbinovka area.

These drone attacks look good for optics, but they don't seem to have a huge effect on where the battlefield is actually taking place. Maybe they are hoping this would effect things at a higher level outside the battlefield which would become significant later?

Usually you cover tactics first and get that secure before thinking of the overall high level strategy though.