The War in the Ukraine

lube

Junior Member
Registered Member
I wonder, in terms of running costs, is it cheaper to roll out a barebones, long range UCAV to lob missiles rather than use old bombers for the job.

Of course, Russia don't have the money or time, but everyone are still using manned bombers for this role.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
I wonder, in terms of running costs, is it cheaper to roll out a barebones, long range UCAV to lob missiles rather than use old bombers for the job.

Of course, Russia don't have the money or time, but everyone are still using manned bombers for this role.

Cruise missiles are costly building one. To operate an air base, maintain aircraft, payrolls for pilots and crews, training them, the costs of fueling up an aircraft, and you got a pretty sizable bill for every kg of warhead delivered. Cruise missiles, thus , literally suck. Chances of them being intercepted are also higher than ballistic missiles. The reasons for maintaining air launched cruise missiles --- cruise missiles can also be launched from the ground --- is to justify and help maintain an institution called an air force.

Glide bombs turn out to be much more efficient by the kilogram cost delivered.

But the real problem of air launched cruise missiles is a sizable reaction time to the target. Ballistic missiles have a way shorter time. In Ukraine we are seeing Iskanders striking within two minutes of discovering a target. How long will it take to launch an aircraft, reach to the launch point, fire a missile and the length of time a cruise missile will reach its target?

If it's static infrastructure targets that are fortified, it looks better to either use ballistic missiles if farther, or heavy glide bombs if nearer.
 

AndrewJ

Junior Member
Registered Member
Until Putin stance changes like I somewhat posted earlier. It will be the same slow grind towards an end of the attritional war that Ukraine is slowly losing. Because losing strategic bombers isn’t going to magically solve Ukraine severe manpower and munitions crisis. The confirmation is only important for us plebs to argue. Since the Russians are well aware who is pulling the strings and that any major moves must first be approved by NATO.

So, Trump is urging Ukraine to humiliate Russia with a bunch in the face, and mediate the two next day? Or Trump already quit NATO and has nothing to do with Ukraine?

WTF is going on? Isn't it Trump who wants to finish the war & concentrates efforts on Asia? o_O:oops:

Seems three sides are all preparing for the peace talks on June 2nd. Then mass strikes happened on June 1st. Too weird.

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Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
Izyum and Liman are no longer that far from Russian lines. Russians are already on the outskirts of Kupyansk. Chasiv Yar is about to fall. Ukrainians just lost a massive pocket south of Konstantinovka in the Kleban Byk area. The highway connecting Pokrovsk and Konstantinovka has not only been cut but is overrun.

You realize that Ukraine no longer has any chance on taking back Crimea and the rest of Kherson, Zaporozhye and South Donetsk. This area is the one area that's most important to NATO because securing the naval bases opens Russia's southern flank and control of the Black Sea. It's the reason why the Summer Offensive was at this areas. All the gains taken in the Summer Counteroffensive of 2023 has not only been rolled back, but the Russians are now on a huge net positive in South Donetsk, and are nearly in the Dnipetrovosk border area, with DRGs already reaching the border.

Major fortress cities have fallen, which presented a massive defensive line, starting with Mariupol, Popasnya, Severodonetsk, Soledar, Bakhmut, Klesheevka, Avdiivka, Novomikhailovka, Toretsk, Niu York, Ugledar, Velika Novoselka and so on. What happened to Zelensky's pledge to take back all these cities, towns and settlements?

Since the beginning of 2024, Ukraine has lost every major battle involving a city or a town, and every battle involving a settlement, except on the Kursk region. But the Kursk region has been completely retaken, and the material and human cost to Ukraine is much greater than Bakhmut or the Summer Counteroffensive.

The West did not come out unscathed. The Russians were able to test their AD and obtain valuable information on systems as ATACMS, HIMARS, Storm Shadows, SCALP, Patriot, JDAMs, SAMP, and so on. That information is likely to have been passed to the Chinese. In response, none of the Western AD has any adequate response to the Iskander, which itself is at the bottom of Russia's ballistic missile chain. Western AD has shown to be completely inadequate against glide bombs and drones. The Chinese would be happy to know their entire ballistic missile approach is validated. Not to mention, the Western AD missile inventory ended up being severely depleted. For the US, missile inventory that was being saved in event for a war against China ended up being depleted. We also seen how many Western land systems failed to turn the tide, leading to embarrassment and loss of image. The inventory of M777 artillery for example got pretty much wiped.

Economically, Europe is devastated. The loss of cheap energy and resources from Russia meant the looming end of Europe's manufacturing base especially the car industry. The German car industry is on the brink. Trying to ramp up defense spending while being welfare states is going to put severe strain on deficits and inflation. On top of this, Europe as a financial industry has been heavily tarnished, and we have seen the rest of the world has moved their wealth away. In a few short years, the EU's trajectory as a major economic power has been reversed.
The western block, Russia and mostly Ukraine are all losers in this war, except that Russia is at least gaining territory. Those countries that aren't involved directly and can learn from the conflict are the winners.
 

sdkan

Junior Member
Registered Member
So, Trump is urging Ukraine to humiliate Russia with a bunch in the face, and mediate the two next day? Or Trump already quit NATO and has nothing to do with Ukraine?

WTF is going on? Isn't it Trump who wants to finish the war & concentrates efforts on Asia? o_O:oops:

Seems three sides are all preparing for the peace talks on June 2nd. Then mass strikes happened on June 1st.

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The peace talks offered by Russia and Ukraine differ so greatly that negotiations are just a waste of time
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
The US has been dealing with drones over its air bases it recent years and this is exactly the type of attack people are afraid would happen. I don't think a comprehensive system for defeating FPV drones currently exists, and to further compounding the problem is that hardened aircraft shelters are expensive to make and maintain (especially if you need to make thousands of them).
You don't need hardened shelters. Have you seen the drones and their payload?

An overengineered reinforced normal shelter should be enough to catch the first few hits. That's enough for basic self preservation measures.

Hardened shelters can be deployed at strategic and important assets (such as in this case...)
 
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