The War in the Ukraine

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
This is a big part of the problem IMO, while you can argue a protracted war for sustainable victory require a metered approach to resource allocation, Russian attitude of treating Ukrainians as brothers while Ukrainians, include those who can speak Russian have been brainwashed for 30 years to hate Russia invites terror attacks. There are ethnicity based domestic policies that can effectively eliminate this kind of problem, but those cannot be implemented without by default assume Ukrainians as an ethnicity are a threat, to switch from treating each case separately to implementing a catch-all system to pre-emptively eliminate all possible threats.

Case in point, do what China did in Xinjiang with everyone with Ukrainians background or connections.

While China does have a more advanced domestic security apparatus, it should still be remembered to not make this mistake with Taiwan, everyone with Taiwan connection must be assumed to be a threat, even if they lived on the mainland for years or profess support for unification. Any mercy you show your enemy is cruelty to your own people.

There will always be risks. Let’s not forget the Tianjin Airport fiasco last year.
 

Kich

Junior Member
Registered Member
When you say Russia has no sead capabilities, are you suggesting US has something special in terms of SEAD that Russia doesn't have or have not tried in this war? They have tried everything when it comes to finding and destroying Ukrainian Air defenses. They have succeeded many times and also failed many times.

There is absolutely nothing that US air force has that can beat the layered soviet and the western supplied air defenses that Ukraine posessed.

Even US stealth fighters and bombers would take serious risk if they go against this AD network.

Nope US won't have problems destroying Ukraine ADs.
  1. For one, US has a lot more ISR drones than Russia; stealth and high attitude ones. Russia has only the Orion and even not that many.
  2. US has a constellation of ISR satellites that can provide a near complete radar picture of AD systems in Ukraine.
  3. Couple Points 1 and 2 with decoy cruise missiles to trigger AD system
  4. And then lastly, US fighters, although short legged, can destroy UAF and subsequently launch Anti-Radiation missiles at these sites.
They've done this many things. They've built their whole entire air force and naval structure around the doctrine of SEAD and DEAD ops.

Russia lack of satellites, high altitude drones, and dedicated EA aircraft are the issues.
 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
So how come the Iranians shot down that US Global Hawk? This isn't the 1950s anymore, you can't have high enough altitude ever against something like the S-300PS or even Buk.
It is true Russia does not have the dedicated aircraft to do this. The Su-24MR is meant to be replaced with the Su-34M with ECM pod but this is still in testing. However, like I said, Khibiny has similar albeit more limited capabilities.
As for radar satellites, you won't have constant coverage, and Soviet IADS is mobile by design.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
next decade? Even in 20 years it won’t be ready
PAK DA will enter service before any European stealth fighter. That is for sure.
They are already building the prototypes.

It is funny to joke about Russian 5th generation aircraft when France and Germany have zero such aircraft. No country in Europe operates heavy bombers other than Russia. Let alone build them.

As I like to say to detractors, Russia has more stealth fighters than Germany, France, and the UK combined.
 
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Kich

Junior Member
Registered Member
So how come the Iranians shot down that US Global Hawk? This isn't the 1950s anymore, you can't have high enough altitude ever against something like the S-300PS.
It is true Russia does not have the dedicated aircraft to do this. The Su-24MR is meant to be replaced with the Su-34M with ECM pod but this is still in testing. However, like I said, Khibiny has similar albeit more limited capabilities.
As for radar satellites, you won't have constant coverage, and Soviet IADS is mobile by design.
High altitude drones are important because they can trigger the long-range AD leading to geolocating its position back to others.

Once these AD sites are triggered and destroyed, destroying the remaining medium and short range systems can be achieved by these high altitude drones which can loiter and maintain near persistent coverage on the battlefield.

It's completely fine if they get destroyed as long as their sacrifice leads to their destruction of dangerous systems.

I can't speak to Iran shooting down a US drone during peacetimes. What? Do you expect US to start a war over a drone. If I recall US brought their raptors to escort these drones and that scared the Iranians away.

Different situation and context not applying to Ukraine.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
PAK DA will enter service before any European stealth fighter. That is for sure.
They are already building the prototypes.

It is funny to joke about Russian 5th generation aircraft when France and Germany have zero such aircraft.

like the Su-57 is ready since a decade, the three Carrier Battle groups and whatever!
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
like the Su-57 is ready since a decade, the three Carrier Battle groups and whatever!
Russia has a modern Air Force with low average age of airframes. They bought their Su-35 less than a decade ago. So they had no reason to make large orders of the Su-57.
Once the Su-35 airframes get like 20 years old they will start being replaced.
 
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