The War in the Ukraine

It is much worse than Azovstal because of all the dangerous chemicals used to make fertilizer in that plant.
There are tanks full of nitric acid in that place. The fumes would be corrosive and could spread to the nearby populated areas.

I would just evacuate the civilians and blow it up with thermobarics. I wouldn't even send troops anywhere near that place. Not without blowing the nitric acid and ammonia up first.

gelgoog said:

It is much worse than Azovstal because of all the dangerous chemicals used to make fertilizer in that plant.
There are tanks full of nitric acid in that place. The fumes would be corrosive and could spread to the nearby populated areas.

I would just evacuate the civilians and blow it up with thermobarics. I wouldn't even send troops anywhere near that place. Not without blowing the nitric acid and ammonia up first.

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They want it to blow with the Russian troops in that part of the city most probably... they don't care about civilians. Clearly insane.

gelgoog said:

It is much worse than Azovstal because of all the dangerous chemicals used to make fertilizer in that plant.
There are tanks full of nitric acid in that place. The fumes would be corrosive and could spread to the nearby populated areas.

I would just evacuate the civilians and blow it up with thermobarics. I wouldn't even send troops anywhere near that place. Not without blowing the nitric acid and ammonia up first.

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Didn’t the Ukrainians already fill that place with hundreds of their own civilians?

Leaving aside the geopolitical aspect, just these kinds of actions along by the Ukrainians would be enough for me to support Russia in this war.

RottenPanzer said:

Supposed video of Cossack ambushing Ukrainian troops on patrol (probably)

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534532730918150144

Also wanna add something, does Russia has any plans to standardized their artillery arsenal with only requiring a single calibre of shell instead of multitude of calibre?

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Russia got rid of their 122 mms and are likely to switch to 152 mm only after this war once their 203 mms are retired. Meanwhile China still uses both 122 mm for high mobility SPGs and 155 mm.for "heavy" SPGs. I think towed guns have already been retired in general.

FairAndUnbiased said:

Russia got rid of their 122 mms and are likely to switch to 152 mm only after this war once their 203 mms are retired. Meanwhile China still uses both 122 mm for high mobility SPGs and 155 mm.for "heavy" SPGs. I think towed guns have already been retired in general.

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How does artillery work in this current war? As you said PLA uses 122mm guns for brigade level SPG and 155mm guns at corps level. In this war we're seeing plenty of usage from both side for both 122mm and 152mm guns. I was arguing with someone saying PLA brigade should also have 155mm guns else they will be outgunned by US brigade combat teams but neither this person nor people like Shilao and Yankee on their recent lesson on artillery think it's a big issue for PLA. And the reason given was:

• US 155mm guns are all 39 caliber guns with considerably shorter range than 52 caliber guns of the PLA, they're more comparable with the PLA 122mm guns, if a bit longer range and a lot harder hitting
• 155mm 52 caliber guns have so much range that they exceed the ISR capability of a brigade, having them at brigade level means they don't have the support to be used to their full capabilities

If Russians switch to all 152mm guns how would it work within a BTG? It won't be all 2S19 Msta presumably?

FairAndUnbiased said:

Russia got rid of their 122 mms and are likely to switch to 152 mm only after this war once their 203 mms are retired. Meanwhile China still uses both 122 mm for high mobility SPGs and 155 mm.for "heavy" SPGs. I think towed guns have already been retired in general.

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I doubt that. The Russians finished upgrading their 203mm artillery to the 2S7M standard just last year. The higher caliber artillery and mortar units proved their worth against these concrete bunkers the Ukrainians use. The 152mm artillery can't put a dent on those. The 203mm lacks range because it doesn't have modern ammo. It needs to be redesigned basically. But it seems to have its uses.

Temstar said:

neither this person nor people like Shilao and Yankee on their recent lesson on artillery think it's a big issue for PLA. And the reason given was:

• US 155mm guns are all 39 caliber guns with considerably shorter range than 52 caliber guns of the PLA, they're more comparable with the PLA 122mm guns, if a bit longer range and a lot harder hitting
• 155mm 52 caliber guns have so much range that they exceed the ISR capability of a brigade, having them at brigade level means they don't have the support to be used to their full capabilities

If Russians switch to all 152mm guns how would it work within a BTG? It won't be all 2S19 Msta presumably?

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Look at the specifications of the M1299. The US is trying to close the gap in artillery vs China.
Plus some of the US aligned nations artillery systems have longer barrels than that.
The PzH 2000, K9 Thunder, and Krab use a 52 caliber gun.

gelgoog said:

Look at the specifications of the M1299. The US is trying to close the gap in artillery vs China.
Plus some of the US aligned nations artillery systems have longer barrels than that.
The PzH 2000, K9 Thunder, and Krab use a 52 caliber gun.

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A conflict between the US or any of those other countries vs China is gonna look a lot different, with airpower playing a much bigger part.
That's not to say that artilerry is irrelevant but I don't think one to one comparisions are as important as in this conflict

Its starting to get a bit off topic here with the artillery comparisons between China/NATO/Russia/etc.

Janiz said:

Interesting how my post vanished without a trace. Probably not "patriotic" or "Western propaganda" in this case.

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As per the rules on the first page:

It is a Military Operation thread dealing with:
Strategy
Tactics
Events/Movements on the Battlefield
Equipment used and its performance
Debunking propaganda and false claims using actual battlefield based evidence

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Your last post was a low effort 1 liner and didn't meet any of the above criteria.

Temstar said:

If Russians switch to all 152mm guns how would it work within a BTG? It won't be all 2S19 Msta presumably?

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2S3's are also 152mm but with 27 caliber guns, so they sit at the lower end of the spectrum.

The destruction of the Ukrainian UAV A1-SM "Fury" by the Russian air defense system 9K35 "Strela-10" was caught on video. The Strela-10 air defense system was put into service in 1976, after which it was repeatedly upgraded. The ammunition of the installation is 8 missiles, 4 on rails and 4 in the hull. The firing range of the air defense system is 5 km, the height of the target is 4 km. The advantages of the Strela-10 air defense system are its low cost, immunity to radio interference and invulnerability to anti-radar missiles. Disadvantages - the impossibility of firing at targets in bad weather conditions and sensitivity to optical interference. UAV A1-SM "Fury" of Ukraine is a drone designed for aerial reconnaissance day and night. The range of the UAV is up to 50 km, the maximum speed is 130 km / h, the time spent in the air is up to 3 hours, the height of use is a maximum of 2.5 km. The cost of the complex is 85 thousand dollars.


The Russian armored train "Brave" appeared in Ukraine. There are no exact characteristics of the Russian armored train yet. Russian BMP-2 and other weapons are installed on the armored train


The Ukrainian small anti-submarine ship "Vinnitsa", of the Soviet project 1124P, corvette according to NATO classification, was sunk in the port of Ochakov. On the video from the drone, the tail number U206 is clearly visible. It is not completely clear why the ship sank, whether it was the blows of the Russian army or Ukraine itself flooded it. The medium landing ship of Ukraine "Yury Olefirenko", of the Soviet project 773, came under fire from the Russian military, you can see it in the video, whether it sank or not is still unknown.