The War in the Ukraine

Tam said:

M1 Abrams disabled by a first FPV drone attack, finished off with the second, both Prince Vandal drones.

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Atomicfrog said:

Interesting to see the layer of era block on the blastdoor. Surely a weak point to mission kill the tank but not sure if it impede his function and lead to bigger damage to the turret if the ammunition cook off.

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Tam said:

Ukrainians report the first Russian DRGs have entered Pokrovsk. Main Russian forces are less than 2km away from Pokrovsk, well within drone and mortar range.

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Trump tells French and Ukrainian leaders he would want European troops to be present in Ukraine​

The outlines of President-elect Donald Trump’s initial efforts to end the war in Ukraine from his visit to Europe last week are starting to emerge for the first time. The main takeaway: Europe would have to shoulder most of the burden of supporting Kyiv with troops to oversee a cease-fire and weapons to deter Russia.

At a meeting in Paris on Dec. 7, Trump told Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and French President Emmanuel Macron that he doesn’t support Ukrainian membership of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, but that he wanted to see a strong, well-armed Ukraine emerge from any cessation of fighting, according to officials briefed on the meeting.

Trump said that Europe should play the main role in defending and supporting Ukraine and that he wanted European troops present in Ukraine to monitor a cease-fire, according to the officials. He hasn’t ruled out U.S. support for the arrangement, although no U.S. troops would be involved, the officials said.

Trump also pushed the Europeans to do more to get the Chinese to press the Kremlin to end the conflict, according to a person briefed on the meeting. They discussed using tariffs on China as a bargaining chip, if Beijing doesn’t agree to do so.

Trump has long said that he wants to bring a swift end to the three-year war but has given few details in public about how he plans to achieve it. European officials have said that in postelection conversations, the president-elect has mainly asked questions and sought out views on the conflict, and that they don’t think he has formed a clear plan on what to do.

Any effort to end the war will face stiff headwinds, particularly from Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has shown no inclination to end a war he feels he is winning—even though gains by Russian forces are slow and with heavy losses. For Ukraine, a cease-fire along the current front lines would also be a painful step, ceding control for the foreseeable future of 20% of the country.

Trump isn’t wedded to any specific Ukraine plan yet, aides say, and hasn’t thought deeply about the issue as he prepares to take power. Members of his transition team and close confidants are drawing up proposals and briefing him. Key decisions will come after his national-security team is in place and Trump has had further conversations with allies—and potentially Putin himself.

The incoming president has repeatedly criticized U.S. aid to Ukraine, raising concerns in Kyiv and European capitals that he could cut off support. While European countries have given more total aid to Ukraine than the U.S., Washington has been particularly crucial for military aid. European military capabilities are limited, and Ukraine has relied mainly on supplies from the Pentagon to try to fend off the Russian invasion.

Some Trump advisers have privately welcomed the recent Biden administration decision to give Ukraine weapons that can reach deeper into Russia, believing it will give the incoming administration leverage to prod Russia into talks.

But Trump has blasted the move. “I disagree very vehemently with sending missiles hundreds of miles into Russia,” he told Time in an article published Thursday, as the magazine named him the Person of the Year for 2024. “The most dangerous thing right now is what’s happening, where Zelensky has decided, with the approval of, I assume, the president, to start shooting missiles into Russia.”

The discussions over placing European troops on the ground in Ukraine are still at an early stage, with several unresolved questions, including which European countries would be involved, the number of troops, Washington’s role in supporting the arrangement and whether Russia would accept a deal involving troops from NATO countries.

However, what started as quiet discussions between British and French officials about the possibility have broadened to include Trump, Zelensky and other European governments, according to people briefed on discussions.

On Thursday, several European foreign ministers met in Berlin for discussions on security guarantees. NATO chief Mark Rutte invited the leaders of the U.K., France, Germany, Italy and Poland, as well as European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, to meet with Zelensky in Brussels to discuss the security guarantees, according to two officials familiar with the plans.

“Zelensky and Ukraine would like to make a deal and stop the madness,” Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform after the Paris meeting. “There should be an immediate cease-fire and negotiations should begin.”

Any European troops on the ground would be part of a specific peacekeeping or cease-fire monitoring force and wouldn’t be a NATO operation, officials said. The Biden administration, many European capitals and the incoming Trump administration have all spoken of wanting to avoid any direct fighting between Russia and NATO troops in Ukraine, fearing it could escalate into a global conflict. However, there are widespread fears that even if Moscow accepts a cease-fire, it will use it to rebuild its forces and try again to invade unoccupied areas of Ukraine.

In February, Macron floated the idea of Europe putting troops in Ukraine following discussions between European leaders in Paris, although he didn’t specify the conditions for doing so. The idea was at the time dismissed by Berlin and NATO among others, but Trump’s push for a cease-fire has revived discussions.

There are still multiple doubts about the idea. European governments are likely to be wary about a force that would put them in a position of having to resist a Russian breach of a cease-fire. French officials have made clear that the idea would need to involve some kind of U.S. backup, something it isn’t clear a Trump administration would consider. It isn’t clear European countries would be able to spare the troops or get the political backing to participate.

Above all, the Kremlin may balk at any plan that allows troops from NATO countries to be present in Ukraine. Putin said earlier this year that European talk of sending NATO country troops into Ukraine during the war “raises the real threat of a nuclear conflict.”

On Thursday, Macron traveled to Poland to discuss Ukraine and security guarantees with Polish leaders. At a press conference after the meeting, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said his country had no plans to put troops in Ukraine and wouldn’t be pushed into any decisions by others.

Zelensky has repeatedly said that the only reliable security guarantee for Ukraine is NATO membership, but he has long accepted that this wouldn’t come before the end of the war. However, in recent weeks, with Trump pressing for a swift end to the fighting, Zelensky has started to shift his position, indicating he would be open to negotiations with Russia on the back of a NATO invitation to Ukraine to join the alliance in future.

Zelensky on Monday welcomed Macron’s suggestion of putting troops on the ground. He stressed, however, that Kyiv “must have a clear understanding of when Ukraine will join the EU and when it will become a NATO member. Understanding our future, such guarantees would be very effective.”

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Trump also pushed the Europeans to do more to get the Chinese to press the Kremlin to end the conflict, according to a person briefed on the meeting. They discussed using tariffs on China as a bargaining chip, if Beijing doesn’t agree to do so.

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The discussions over placing European troops on the ground in Ukraine are still at an early stage

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he wanted to see a strong, well-armed Ukraine emerge from any cessation of fighting

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FriedButter said:

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So Trump plan is to threaten China into making Russia back down. Also the deal is already dead if this is
what he is going for. Europe NATO Troops in Ukraine and full scale rearmament campaign for Ukraine. That isn’t going to fly with Russia.

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Temstar said:

This is the last layer of defensive belt around Pokrovsk now breeched by the Russians. Built at great cost it was taken intact with the mattress inside still in its plastic wrapping and food stores unopened:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1867151201961193826

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Temstar said:

This is the last layer of defensive belt around Pokrovsk now breeched by the Russians. Built at great cost it was taken intact with the mattress inside still in its plastic wrapping and food stores unopened:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1867151201961193826

Click to expand...