The War in the Ukraine

sheogorath said:

This one was another overhyped system despite multiple people pointing out that it was succeptible to EW measures.

NATO should demilitarize itself for Ukraine, according to Stoltenberg

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1784921348814340273

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Stoltenberg is an American sockpuppet through and through.

He is not actually saying NATO should demilitarise itself. He is saying non-American NATO should demilitarise itself for Ukraine.

The ‘logic’ behind this thinking is simple, if non-US NATO countries empty their armouries to supply Ukraine, who profits when they need to rearm?

Russia was supposed to have run out of washing machines to harvest chips for missiles ages ago. The fact that they didn’t and are producing more missiles than ever isn’t resulting in a strategic shift from Washington because it’s very obvious Washington these days couldn’t change their grand plans to account for unfavourable facts. All they can do is double down and make increasingly more bizarre and unrealistic attempts to force reality to align to salvage their original plan. The latest is to go to China and demand the Chinese stop trading with Russia to help NATO defeat Russia so it could then focus all of its resources and energy on China.

It’s the same magical thinking that makes Stoltenberg unironically believe that even after non-US NATO has cannibalised its militaries to bleed Russia in Ukraine that Russia will magically be more deterred after it was conquered Ukraine and is faced with a NATO with equivalent heavy weapons ratios as the Taliban.

Non-US NATO countries would be taking a colossal gamble with a handful of nothing more than hopes and dreams and delusions of grandeur to follow his advice.

GLSDB, HIMARS and the JDAM's however have INS. although i doubt it would be in such grade that allow GPSlike accuracy. These are some example of INS/Gyroscope drift/bias



Missiles may use Tactical to Navigation grade INS. While strategic is perhaps reserved for ballistic missiles. Say a GLSDB using a 0.18 deg/hr INS, 150 km range and some Mach 2 flight If GPS allows 1 m CEP.. the INS only flight would be 0.18 * 0.06 (0.06 here being 0.06 hours of flight time) It will have CEP of 11 m or 10 times more. Problem is of course whether the weapon have the warhead capacity to compensate for the miss distance.

Case would be more severe for Subsonic weapon.. say JDAM ER. If somehow Ukrainian can use it at maximum range it might miss it mark by 54 meters. If lower cost INS is used.. well can be more.

The EW effect might not be complete GPS jam but GPS spoofing. When GPS is spoofed rather than jammed does the INS takes over or GPS still takes precedent over INS?

The more accurate INS systems use more expensive and harder to manufacture gyros. The whole point of GPS is that it's cheap.

Cheaper modern INS systems use MEMS gyroscopes but those are kind of inaccurate without GPS assist. Laser gyroscopes are more accurate but much more expensive. Like an order of magnitude more. Plus they are bulkier.

Adding GPS to something might be as cheap as a couple of bucks.

sheogorath said:

The EW effect might not be complete GPS jam but GPS spoofing. When GPS is spoofed rather than jammed does the INS takes over or GPS still takes precedent over INS?

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When a system is spoofed it is not jammed. It assumes the inputs are still correct when it is not. You call this false data. The system has no way of knowing the data is false and will still assume the course based on those false signals. INS will not take over. This isn't like the FPV drone when it encounters jamming, as in the cut off of communication signal, forcing the drone to assume a default straight course based on its last known heading.


This MSTA-S is covered with log armor.


Ukrainian T-72M1 gets taken out by FPV drone in South Donetsk.


Ukrainians launch another ATACMS attack on Crimea, 10 to 12 missiles, appears they were all shot down as the previous.


Looks like cluster munitions from ATACMS shot down in Crimea.


Pieces of ATACMS shot down.


Ukrainian S-300 system gets taken out by a strike, the weapon not specified.


Lancets take out a hidden Ukrainian artillery and transport.


Baba Yaga taken out by an ATGM.


FPV drone takes out Ukrainian IFV in the Avdeyevka front.


FABs hit Ukrainian positions in Chasiv Yar.


FABs hit Ukrainian positions in Berislav in Kherson.


FABs hit Ukrainian positions in Makarivka, Zaporozhye.


FABs hit Ukrainian positions near the border.


FAB attack in Strilecha, also near the border.


Lancet attacks a truck carrying supplies near the border.


Ukrainian fuel tanker in the Sumy region is hit by an FPV drone.

Tam said:

Looks like cluster munitions from ATACMS shot down in Crimea.

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Pieces of ATACMS shot down.

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WOndering about ATACMS fuzz...

The Russian managed to shotdown most missiles in volley of smaller MLRS from HIMARS, a couple of ATACMS are probably way easier to stop. It's more that they don't have enough MLRS HIMARS missile builds and need to rely on ATACMS stockpiles to continue supports...

Looks like more than half dozen Patriot systems may be for sale soon or US will likely buy them back.

It wouldn't surprise me if US is behind the urging for retiring these batteries since they are not meant for a short range saturation rocket attacks the likes hezbollah can bring but cruise and ballistic missiles it can handle. Israeli Patriot took part in shooting down incoming missiles a few weeks ago. This would be huge if Ukraine got their hands on these.

SolarWarden said:

Looks like more than half dozen Patriot systems may be for sale soon or US will likely buy them back.

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It wouldn't surprise me if US is behind the urging for retiring these batteries since they are not meant for a short range saturation rocket attacks the likes hezbollah can bring but cruise and ballistic missiles it can handle. Israeli Patriot took part in shooting down incoming missiles a few weeks ago. This would be huge if Ukraine got their hands on these.

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Yeah, thats wasn't a a very poignant display of effectiveness. Also if they were that great, why would you retire them right after you just faced an attack from Iran and and you are looking to escalate things even further.

sheogorath said:

Yeah, thats wasn't a a very poignant display of effectiveness. Also if they were that great, why would you retire them right after you just faced an attack from Iran and and you are looking to escalate things even further.

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Because Israel has their own system that are newer meaning more advanced and data linked with other Israeli made batteries.

David's Sling, unlike Patriot armed with PAC2/3, can take down shorter range rockets and can do the job of PAC-3 missiles. David Sling's missile are also cheaper than PAC-2/3 missiles and the system is easier to maintained than Patriot. Patriots do more than a fie job in Ukraine taking down cruise and ballistic missiles when they are used they even took down a "zircon glide vehicle" a few weeks ago.

sheogorath said:

Yeah, thats wasn't a a very poignant display of effectiveness. Also if they were that great, why would you retire them right after you just faced an attack from Iran and and you are looking to escalate things even further.

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Maybe they just don't have reload anymore with present production that is not enough to fill them in a usefull time line.