The War in the Ukraine

B777LR

Junior Member
Registered Member
Let us hope and pray that the west is stupid enough to actually do just that.

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Dude was an actual Special Forces veteran.

In America, everybody still thinks the SEALs are the best (lol)...because they are the best at propaganda, marketing, advertising, public relations, selling movies, and whoring themselves out to Hollywood and video games.

The truth is that it's probably the Green Berets. Army Special Forces. Like that guy.

Vaunted United States Captain America Super Soldier Special Forces Ultra Top-Secret Black Ops Tier Hyper 1 War Hero...pwned by some Russian purse snatchers and drug dealers.

OK fine maybe I can be nicer, but keep in mind that these are the same guys who HAPPILY AND GLEEFULLY committed all sorts of war crimes in the Middle-East and they would be happy to do so again against China or any other global south countries. Oftentimes targeting women, children, elderly, the disabled, etc.

These guys were more than happy to brag about how they were the best when they were bullying weak countries obviously not capable of defending themselves or their people.

But man oh man do they cry when the other guy now can also call in airstrike on them.

There are other American mercenaries who similarly complained about how the Russians were calling in airstrikes and artillerly barrages on them...things that they were not used to in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So ya, go ahead, send more mercenaries America.

FWIW, the entire concept of special forces tends to be misunderstood in popular media. They tend to get portrayed something along the lines of a super special, skilled and unstoppable video game character. In reality they are highly specialised and trained forces developed for very specific purposes. If I'm not completely mistaken, the purpose of the SEALS are surprise raids and ambushes behind enemy lines, not standing on the frontline where they will be killed just as easily as anyone else by a random bullet or mortar grenade. Their training doesn't mitigate the risk of a general frontline soldier.
 

OTCDebunker

New Member
Registered Member
FWIW, the entire concept of special forces tends to be misunderstood in popular media. They tend to get portrayed something along the lines of a super special, skilled and unstoppable video game character. In reality they are highly specialised and trained forces developed for very specific purposes. If I'm not completely mistaken, the purpose of the SEALS are surprise raids and ambushes behind enemy lines, not standing on the frontline where they will be killed just as easily as anyone else by a random bullet or mortar grenade. Their training doesn't mitigate the risk of a general frontline soldier.
It's very complicated and difficult to explain.

More so because I'm on mobile but in a nutshell yes you are correct.

Army SF = Undercover spies and agents meant to train and lead a guerilla force in an enemy country/Territory.

SEALs = Get shat out (no seriously) by a submarine then recon a beach to see if it's a good idea to send a ton of Marines for an amphibious assault later.

Marine Force Recon (just for the record I seriously hate both that name and this is my least favorite branch of all the fREedUmb forces) = a weirdo copy/attempt to be SEALs and Army Rangers because the real truth is that the USMC has the worst inferiority complex either and like 95% of their major decisionmaking is determined by the philosophy of "I just want to get one up on the army/navy" (no, like really...meet enough Marines and you will see this for yourself)

Army Rangers = Honestly just supposed to be a more badass version of paratroopers...they do however have quite the long lineage from Roger's Rangers back in the Revolutionary days where they essentially do what they do today except no airplanes and parachutes...basically go behind enemy lines and fight and kill. Nothing too special.

USAF PJs/TacP = Either REALLY good combat medics basically (no seriously these guys are actually quite knowledgeable in medical stuff. I'm talking they frequently put surgical nurses to shame...I have honor due credit where it's due)...or just hardcore spotters for airstrikes/artillery.

SEAL teAm 6/dEVgRUuuu = easily the most overrated of any military outfit in all of modern history...Obama sent them to assassinate what likely very well could've been Osama Bin Laden's body double and then they ETERNALLY HUMILIATED ALL OF SPECIAL FORCES-VERSE when multiple team members publicly argued on TV about who scored the kill...really man?!!?! Fucking WHORES for the camera I'm telling ya!

DELta F0rCe = This one is actually one of the few I would urge the PLA to take seriously. PLA takes all threats seriously, but this is the only one I think should be even more seriously taken. If that makes sense. Precisely because they don't talk much and nobody knows all that much about them even we all know they exist. Chances are they prolly just work a lot with the CIA's Special Activities Division...so they're more like Jason Bourne (without the cringe marital arts and the obvious melodrama...author has to make a living too right?) Or a real life John Clark from the old Tom Clancy novels (without the racism and military ballsack fondling he was known for).

But yes, in general you are correct.

However, I have to stress that it's still true that in so-called normal war fighting and infantry stuff these guys are still going to be better than regular grunts. It would be an absolute travesty if your 'elite' forces cannot actually throw hands better than just some 18 year old kid who has 1 year of service, including his training.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
FWIW, the entire concept of special forces tends to be misunderstood in popular media. They tend to get portrayed something along the lines of a super special, skilled and unstoppable video game character. In reality they are highly specialised and trained forces developed for very specific purposes. If I'm not completely mistaken, the purpose of the SEALS are surprise raids and ambushes behind enemy lines, not standing on the frontline where they will be killed just as easily as anyone else by a random bullet or mortar grenade. Their training doesn't mitigate the risk of a general frontline soldier.

Pretty much the same with the Russians but in addition they are also tasked with reconnaissance, scouting, identifying and targeting for artillery and air strikes. Lately their activities include drone warfare, including spotting the enemy and targets with drones, dropping bombs at them, and sending FPV drones. They also often deploy Lancets and Orlans. One might say they have become drone trooper specialists. Of course, nothing like Dolph Lungren in that Spetznaz movie.


Russian Mettis M1 ATGM hits a Ukrainian DRG squad of five.


CV-90 knocked out by FPV drone from the Sudoplatov Battalion.


Assembling an FPV drone in the bitter cold then sending it express delivery to a Ukrainian dugout.


Two SPGs and a tank knocked out by the VDV in the Andreevka area using Lancets.



Ukrainian dugout got smoked by artillery from the 60th Motorized Rifle Brigade at the Vremsky Ledge. The Russians have been chipping away at Ukrainian gains in their summer offensive.

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Putin saying, Ukrainian authorities abandoning their wounded in Krynki. The Russian Federation will not behave like this.

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Drone from the Russian Hawks hit by Ukrainian fire, but still managed to fall and explode in the Ukrainian position in Gorlovka.

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Destroyed French APC VAB.

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Quadcopter drop into a Ukrainian dugout by the VDV.

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Tank offensive of two T-72M1 and three Leopard 2 from Rabotino to Novoprokopovka stopped after getting hit.

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CV-90 knocked out in Bekhovka as Ukraine asks for more of them.

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New shipment of improved batch of KUB drones to the Russian forces. KUBs figured prominently in 2022 but gradually of late, were being overshadowed by Lancets and Gerans that we don't see them used at all for a while. KUBs function similar to Gerans, being they are satellite guided to a target determined by GPS but unlike Gerans, they are shorter ranged but much quieter with only electric motors. A new improved version of KUB was developed from the war experience while existing stocks were allowed to deplete.

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Avdiivka coke plant looks destroyed from this satellite photo. Currently there are attempts to storm its gate.

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New Ukrainian drone Cobra intended to be used as a cheap alternative to the Gerans.

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Russian 2A38M 30mm gun trying to shoot down Ukrainian UAV.

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Destroyed Challenge 2 tank in Zaporozhye from the ground perspective.

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Shoigu: Russian Army will be brought up to 1.5 million from current 1 million. Putin has mentioned that over 600,000 are now involved the SMO.

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Tiger and Urals with the special forces of this Rosguard unit.

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Russian home made buggy based on a UAZ and sporting an AGS-17.

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Ukrainian landing boats with Marines gets bombed trying to left on the left side of the Dniepr.

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Last edited:

ThreeAmigos

New Member
Registered Member
Ukraine went from having over 45 million citizens in 2014 to like 34 million citizens today. They lost over 10 million citizens.
A lot of those people moved to either the EU or Russia and will likely never go back.

Some people claim that Ukraine have even lower population than that currently. Their population growth is also deeply negative and has been so since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Back then Ukraine had 52 million citizens.

Ukrainian demographics are simply dismal.

Compare this with Russia which a lot of people say has a demographic problem. Russia went from having 148 million citizens in 1991 to 146 million citizens in 2022. While the number of births in Russia isn't stellar, they have had a significant migratory flow incoming from other countries in the former Soviet Union.

People who compare the Russian campaign in Ukraine 2022 with US invasion of Iraq in 2003 don't know what they are talking about. Iraq back then had like 24 million population, had been sanctioned for three decades, and had most of its ground army destroyed by the US when they retreated from Kuwait after the Gulf War. After they had signed a cease fire with the US.
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The truth is that Iraq managed to conserve most of its armed forces in the Gulf War by hiding it from air strikes. The US campaign in Kuwait was largely not successful in destroying their army. The US only managed to destroy the Iraqi Army with shenanigans like this.

The destruction of the Iraqi Army when they were evacuating from Kuwait in 1991 together with the sanctions which did not allow them to rearm is what enabled the 2003 invasion to be so successful. The US armed forces were also able to move much faster because of Iraq's highly modern highway system. Compare that with the dirt roads in Ukraine which turn into slush for like half the year. But as a result the US got into a long term quagmire in Iraq against insurgents.

Ukraine in comparison had been upgrading its army since 2014 with hundreds of modernized T-64 tanks entering service every year. These were upgraded in factories at Kharkiv and Lviv with Western thermal sights, encrypted radios, electronic battlefield management systems, and upgraded engines. They inherited a huge amount of latest generation Soviet air defenses from the 1980s being in the former Soviet border area. These were at least one if not two decades more modern than anything that Iraq had and were available in much larger numbers. Their air defenses were also modernized since then. Trump gave them thousands of latest generation ATGMs when he was in power. More came in supposedly last year together with thousands of MANPADS. They get hundreds of billions in funding and equipment from the West. So it is totally different. Yet even then Ukraine is losing.

Much like Obama said in Ukraine it is Russia that has escalatory dominance. People who compare the Ukraine conflict with Vietnam don't know what they are talking about either. Ukraine is right next to Russia's population core. It isn't an ocean away.

Ukraine had population increase in the 50s, 60s, 70s mainly due to increasing life span in Communist era. Ukraine's birth rate has always been low. Once those oldies kick the bucket, Ukraine's population drop to less than 30 million by year 2030.
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
Btw, a small observation.

Even Israel couldn't sustain a high guided munition ratio during the Gaza siege. Granted, that's because a permissive environment allows for significantly more flights than IAF(and even US?!) can supply with PGMs, but that fact alone shall be alarming to most air forces around the world.

On the contrary, faced with an inability to suppress AD network (at least to a level of sustainable losses), Russian VKS went to a very high percentage of PGMs - if anything, only CAS suppression mission is still done with unguided rockets.
Bombing first switched to a majority standoff, then(through 2023) to a near ~100% PGM ratio.
To the point when sustained glide bomb use is already close to being limited with airframes, not with the number of munitions available.
 

Stierlitz

Junior Member
Registered Member
The Kyiv Independent becomes increasingly depressing.

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Btw that article has drawn ire from the NAFO crowd. They are now accusing Kyiv Independent of being a Russian asset.IMG_20231219_132529_311.jpgIMG_20231219_132529_117.jpg

In other news, battalion commander of the 54th mechanized brigade of the AFU, Major Kirill Veres said this in an interview :

"If we talk about the war on all fronts, we are losing. Where are we winning? I don't know, I can't say. We are surviving. It's one thing to do what you have to do to win and another to do what you have to do not to perish. This is a very difficult time for us," said Veres.

He believes the inflated expectations of the summer's counter-offensive have played a part.

"We thought we would be in Crimea in the summer, and a lot of people stopped living the war, some people stopped wanting to go to the AFU," he says.

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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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19.12.2023
...
the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, General of the Army Sergei Shoigu, made a report
...
"I will start with the preliminary results of the special military operation.
Russian forces have liberated territory five times larger than that occupied by the Luhansk and Donetsk People's Republics before the start of the special operation.
According to the results of referendums, the Russian Federation included four new subjects with a total area of more than 83 thousand square kilometers and a population of about 5 million people.
A naval area has been created in the Sea of Azov, which has become the internal sea of Russia.
Railway traffic with the Donbass region has been restored.
A land corridor with the Crimea has been operating for more than a year, and communication by rail and road has been established.
Almost 3 million refugees who have not seen their relatives since 2014 have returned to the new regions of the Russian Federation.
* * *
Since the start of the special operation, 54 countries have announced military supplies to the Kiev regime. In fact, weapons and military equipment come from 15 countries.
Ukraine has so far received $203 billion from external donors, which is $30 billion more than its GDP. In fact, this is a bankrupt country, since a significant part of these funds are loans that must be repaid.
In total, 5,220 tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, 28 aircraft, 87 helicopters, 23,000 unmanned aerial vehicles, over 1,300 artillery systems (including 494 M777, Caesar, Paladin and Krab howitzers), 2.65 million 155 and 122 mm shells were delivered to Kiev.
NATO military personnel directly control air defense systems, operational-tactical missiles and multiple launch rocket systems. When preparing strikes with these means, we record American, Polish, and British speech in radio intercepts. NATO officers train military operations, train the personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine both in their own countries and in Ukraine.
In the interests of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, 410 military and dual-use spacecraft of NATO countries are operating.
On June 4, the armed forces of Ukraine launched a large-scale counteroffensive, prepared by foreign curators. Without overcoming the tactical defense zone of our troops, the enemy was stopped and suffered enormous losses.
159 thousand soldiers killed and wounded, 121 aircraft, 23 helicopters, 766 tanks, including 37 Leopard, 2348 armored vehicles of various classes, including 50 Bradley. Apparently, this is why we still do not see the American Abrams delivered several months ago on the battlefield.
* * *
Since the beginning of the special operation, the losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine have exceeded 383 thousand soldiers killed and wounded, 14 thousand tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, 553 aircraft and 259 helicopters, 8,5 thousand field artillery guns and multiple launch rocket systems.
Ukraine has conducted nine waves of mobilization, the tenth continues. Currently, those who are only partially fit for military service are also called up.
The mercenaries actively involved since the beginning of the special operation have mostly been eliminated. More than 5,8 thousand militants were killed, including 1,427 from Poland, 466 from the United States, and 344 from the United Kingdom.
On the territory of Ukraine, 103 war criminals who showed particular cruelty were eliminated. Retribution will overtake everyone.
* * *
By the decision of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, unprecedented steps have been taken to rearm the army and Navy, as well as to provide social support for military personnel.
In order to meet the needs of the Armed Forces, enterprises of the military-industrial complex have increased their capacity four times and switched to a round-the-clock operation mode.
Since February 2022, the production of tanks has increased by 5.6 times, IFVs-by 3.6 times, armored personnel carriers-by 3.5 times, unmanned aerial vehicles-by 16.8 times, and artillery ammunition — by 17.5 times.
Today, in the special operation zone, the troops are provided with ammunition to the extent of their tasks.
Created by the decision of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, the coordination centers took over control of the implementation of the state defense order, built a modern and efficient system.
The production capacity of repair military units and subunits has been increased by 1.5 times. More than 270 field repair shops of key defense industry enterprises have been set up for the most complex operations in the special operation zone.
As a result, the rate of repair and return to combat equipment increased by 2.5 times.
* * *
To increase the stability of the defense of groups of troops, on behalf of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, large-scale tasks were solved on the fortification equipment of defense lines.
Along the entire length of the line of contact, which is more than 2 thousand kilometers, 7 thousand kilometers of minefields, 1.5 million anti-tank barriers "Pyramid", 2 thousand kilometers of anti-tank ditches, 12 thousand precast concrete structures, 3 thousand platoon strongpoints, 45 thousand dugouts and more than 150 thousand shelters for equipment were created.
Today, the depth of mining is up to 600 meters, which is twice as high as the usual standard ones.
A colossal joint work was carried out by military builders, engineering and railway troops, whose forces completed 82% of all work. By the decision of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, the state company Avtodor and civilian specialists from the constituent entities of the Russian Federation were involved. Many governors personally traveled and coordinated the construction of defensive structures.
Today, this work is yielding results.
* * *
In the conditions of modern combat operations, the approaches to the use of troops were clarified. The tactics of combined-arms combat have undergone major changes. Assault units and unmanned aviation units have been created and deployed.
We have revised our approaches to reserve formation. As a result, each army has its own reserve regiment.
During the special operation, they began to use air defense systems in a comprehensive manner. Due to this, their capabilities in terms of responsiveness and range of destruction have significantly increased.
In just six months, 1062 NATO missiles for Himars MLRS, operational-tactical and cruise missiles, and guided aerial bombs were shot down.
With the active counteraction of modern enemy air defense and electronic warfare systems, high-precision weapons are successfully used.
In strategic and operational depth, hundreds of ammunition depots, weapons and equipment unloading stations, and workshops of enterprises that produce and repair military equipment were hit.
Thousands of Ukrainian militants, nationalists and foreign mercenaries were killed in the rear training and reserve formation centers.
During the special operation, we significantly improved the quality and reliability of the weapons and military equipment used. In the shortest possible time, industry representatives working in the army upgraded 107 samples.
For the tasks of the troops, our leading designers have been creating the latest complexes and means of destruction for several months.
Weapons that were developed and tested under normal conditions for 5-8 years are now being brought to mass production within 4-7 months.
This has not happened since the Great Patriotic War.
...
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
* * *
Modern Russian equipment passed a tough test in the conditions of a special operation and showed its superiority over similar models of NATO countries.
Training grounds and training centers have been set up to teach the use of FPV drones, individual electronic warfare equipment, and new aviation weapons.
More than 1.7 thousand calculations of unmanned aerial vehicles and more than 1.5 thousand operators of FPV drones have been prepared in the military groups.
New, non-standard tactical techniques of units' actions have been introduced into combat training, which have shown their effectiveness on the battlefield. The capacity of district and army training grounds has been tripled.
Additionally, more than 1.5 thousand educational places are equipped, and more than 800 educational facilities are operated around the clock.
Almost in the shortest possible time, a new system of training military specialists was created.
* * *
High results were achieved in medical support. First aid on the battlefield is usually provided in the first minutes after the injury.
In the immediate vicinity of the front line, field hospitals are deployed, reinforced by experienced surgeons from central medical institutions.
Multiple improvements in wounded survival.
Thanks to prompt assistance on the battlefield, timely evacuation and high-tech medical care, more than 98% of the wounded are discharged with recovery.
All military personnel who have been injured undergo a full-time medical examination by the military medical commissions of the military hospitals where they are treated. Currently, there are 440 such commissions in operation.
The mortality rate in the hospital unit is less than 0.5% and continues to decline. This is the lowest rate in the entire history of military medicine.
All this makes it possible to return military personnel with combat experience to their units.
An effective rehabilitation system has been built in hospitals and health resort organizations.
To date, nine rehabilitation centers have been created, where the wounded, after prosthetics, acquire new military and civilian specialties. Of these, 75% are employed in military commissariats, higher educational institutions and other organizations of the Ministry of Defense.
* * *
Russian servicemen and volunteers show bravery, perseverance and dedication during a special military operation.
Tankers, motorized infantry, paratroopers, marines, pilots and gunners act courageously.
320 thousand people received state awards. 272 were awarded the title of Hero of the Russian Federation.
Military-political bodies make a significant contribution to ensuring readiness for combat missions.
Political officers are in combat formations, explain to the military the goals and objectives of the special operation, instill in them faith in victory.
Their work and patriotism ensure the high morale of our fighters.
A special military operation brought the army and people together.
Every day, more than 1.5 thousand people apply for military service. This year alone, about 490,000 contract servicemen and volunteers have been recruited.
More than 4 thousand Russian students voluntarily took academic leave and perform combat tasks.
The number of foreign volunteers willing to fight on the side of Truth has increased seven-fold. The opposite trend is observed in the Ukrainian army. The number of foreign mercenaries has been reduced by six times.
* * *
I would also like to thank the volunteers who created 348 additional production facilities for the production of unmanned aerial vehicles, camouflage nets and equipment.
Students alone made more than 50 thousand square meters of camouflage nets, which made it possible to cover four battalion defense areas.
University students have donated more than 17 tons of blood and continue to do so. It saved many fighters ' lives.
We can say that the whole country supports the Armed Forces and is united around the leadership of the state.
* * *
Summing up the results of the year, the Supreme Commander-in-Chief noted that the state fully meets the needs of the troops.
In addition to one hundred percent of the provision of troops ' groups, reserves have been created — 500 thousand sets of clothing and personal armor protection equipment, 300 thousand individual first-aid kits, 160 vehicles for the evacuation of the wounded.
Every day, up to 15 thousand tons of ammunition and fuel, as well as 2 thousand tons of food and 1.5 thousand tons of drinking water are delivered to the groups of troops to make up for the cost.
* * *
The level of pay for contract servicemen, volunteers and conscripts is balanced and ranges from 210 thousand rubles per month and above, depending on the position held and the performance of combat missions.
Payment is made for the destruction or seizure of enemy weapons and military equipment.
All required payments are made on time. The issue of payments is kept under special control and in case of detection of any deviations, measures are taken immediately.
Participants in a special military operation are provided with housing as a matter of priority. 40 billion rubles have been allocated for these needs.
To increase the efficiency of providing social guarantees to military personnel and military pensioners, a Military Social Center of the Ministry of Defense is being created, working on the principle of one window.
The procedure for obtaining military veteran's certificates has been simplified. We switched to a non-application procedure for issuing them. 458 thousand certificates have already been handed over. We will issue them to all participants in the near future.
All soldiers involved in the special operation zone to assist the Armed Forces, including private military companies, receive veteran's certificates in a timely manner after the measures taken.
Only in the last month, 50 thousand such certificates were issued by the decision of the Ministry of Defense.
Starting next year, we plan to switch to electronic identification cards of military veterans.
* * *
In general, the experience of the special operation has shown that the Russian Armed Forces are able to respond adequately and quickly to the actions of any modern enemy.
More than 650,000 servicemen have gained combat experience.
Today, the Russian army is the most trained and combat-ready in the world, with advanced weapons tested in combat conditions.
 
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