It's all in artillery range... way cheaper to TOS them out. Until they breach the first line of defence somewhat to be able to pass that hell hole rapidly, Rabotino is a killing field for howitzer, mortar, mlrs, etc... Cruise missiles attacks are way better for target way beyond the front like depot, facilities or troops training grounds and dormitories.
The War in the Ukraine
- Thread starter SampanViking
- Start date
There must be some outside the range of conventional artillery, yet no major strategic bomber use in the last few weeks. Not to mention using cruise missiles in a tactical role could have a surprise effect on the Ukrainians used to them being employed on purely strategic targets.
It take too long to remove the tires off the wings, lol ! I think there's just no urgent needs for using them like that... gliding bomb are doing the trick if they have enough static tactical target.
Cruise missiles are clearly not the fastest tool in the basket. I could see the use of Iskander-M way more for these types of objectives.
Why use a cruise missile against a temporary deployment point when rockets and artillery, or even a FAB would get there well ahead of time? A cruise missile has a significantly smaller warhead and explosive radius than a FAB-500, or the recently deployed FAB-1500. Or maybe you don't follow the postings, as indeed these staging points are constantly attacked with all sorts of strikes including long range precision artillery to MLRS to FAB and KAB bombs. Kh-28 and Kh-29 missiles are also used on staging points. Helicopters use the LMUR missile, which I see used on static fortifications.
These points need to be found first, usually by UAV first, and then reacted with the fastest possible weapon. Strategic bombers are the longest to react in the reaction chain, compared to say, laser guided artillery like Krasnopol or Excalibur or satellite corrected MLRS like HIMARS or Tornado G/S. Reaction is everything or the target won't be there when your munitions arrive. Next to that are the assault helicopters, followed by the Sukhois. The long reaction chain along with the high cost of munition is why cruise missiles are used on high value stationary targets and not on things as ephemeral as a deployment point.
Here a FAB-500 with UMPK glide kit (JDAMski) lands on an AFU ammunition depot in the Krasnoliman front just recently.
Stuff unrelated added.
ATGM from the 14th SPN Brigade slams on a Ukrainian DRG.
Field ammo depot taken out by Vikhr missile from a Ka-52.
Krasnopol strikes on temporary deployment points and warehouses of the AFU in Kharkhiv and Sumy regions. In preparation of something?
Krasnopol strikes in fuel and oil depots on Kizomys along the coast in Kherson.
The sound of drones and explosions in Lyiv as Gerans arrive to their targets. Are the Gerans the new Stukas of the 21st Century?
Lyiv burns as a result of Geran attacks.
NYT article points to Ukraine as the source of the missile that hit a parking lot in Konstantinovka, saying it's Buk missile. Previous rumors suggest it's a missed AGM-88 HARM.
FAB-500M62 with UMPK being dropped by Su-34.
Lancet hits to an open compartment of an armored vehicle.
Ministry of Defense of Ukraine seeking Volksturm as electronic registry is created to collect and track information of men from 17 to 60.
No one is killed in this video. Ukrainian soldiers surrendering as viewed from Russian night vision. A frequency is made available for AFU troops to call to surrender.
Destroyed AFU BTR-4 in the short clip from Ukrainian soldier.
Ukrainian DRG hit by artillery shell in the Donetsk region.
FPV drone from the Osman spetznaz unit delivers into a sheltered AFU machine gun nest.
AFU howitzer covered with cope mesh still found and hit by Lancet.
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5'000 km-capable cruise missile (i.e. suicide plane, and not in the Shahed sense) is a limited and expensive resource; it's produced at best in single digits per day, because there is ultimately a limit on how many jet engines, auto-pilots etc you can manufacture.
The same target can be bombed by a 10'000 USD UMPK glide kit(which are already produced/used in 3 digits daily). Moreover, it'll be done much faster - either several dozens of minutes, or even minutes: UMPKs support over-the-air targeting data (why not, it's just a set of coordinates, after all).
The newest cruise missiles can be launched this way, but only newest ones - even Kh-101/Storm Shadow require a rather significant flight data preparation - many hours will pass between target data and bomber take off, much less the strike itself.
Thus, obviously, the best way to use strategic cruise missiles is not to use them against frontline targets. The targets that do require such a weapon can be better served by occasional Kh-59 from tactical fighters and bombers.
Then indeed.
Well, it's neither possible, nor it's useful for the war effort, nor is it moral, nor is it humane.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
The notion of Russia using its bombers to carpet bomb anything is pure silliness. If they cannot make much use of their TacAir due to the threat of Ukrainian air defences, what kind of folly would have them send their bombers within enemy missile range to drop iron bombs while flying in formation?
Russia cannot achieve SEAD due to NATO ISR being directly plugged into Ukrainian kill chains, and they don’t have the capabilities of doing full DEAD of Ukrainian air defences. This, and their lack of space assets means they have a real hard time with ISR that gets worse the further from the frontlines. This lack of timely intel and recon is the main reason behind their limit success with deep strikes, and why they have thus far focused mostly on strategic targets.
But they do hit tactical targets when the opportunity presents itself. The recent strike against that drone exhibition is a good example.
But for targets on the frontline, it makes little sense for the Russians to waste cruise missiles when they have artillery well within range to hit whatever needs hitting.
Russia cannot achieve SEAD due to NATO ISR being directly plugged into Ukrainian kill chains, and they don’t have the capabilities of doing full DEAD of Ukrainian air defences. This, and their lack of space assets means they have a real hard time with ISR that gets worse the further from the frontlines. This lack of timely intel and recon is the main reason behind their limit success with deep strikes, and why they have thus far focused mostly on strategic targets.
But they do hit tactical targets when the opportunity presents itself. The recent strike against that drone exhibition is a good example.
But for targets on the frontline, it makes little sense for the Russians to waste cruise missiles when they have artillery well within range to hit whatever needs hitting.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
What differentiates this from all the other FPV drone hits?
What’s more interesting to me is that the hit SPG kept driving. The amount of time it took for the driver to bail out makes me wonder if this was done deliberately. And it does make sense if it was deliberate.
What can happen if the SPG stops immediately after being hit and the crew bails out? A follow up strike can finish it off and possibly also hit the crew as a bonus, especially if there is a Kaboom.
By setting the SPG to keep going on its own, the crew creates two targets for the enemy ISR to track and for enemy follow up munitions to choose from. Odds are good the enemy ISR and follow up shot will go after the SPG over running crewmen. It also puts distance between themselves and the SPG multiple times faster than just them running away, so much greater overall chance of crew survival.