The War in the Ukraine

HighGround said:

Was this posted before anywhere?

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I've seen this a few times on my Twitter from a couple different sources. Some pro-Russian, some relatively neutral. I also stumbled on this article. However, I cannot find the original source of where Renikov said it. Would appreciate if someone could confirm that this is something the Ukrainian Minister of Defense said.

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He's actually asking Russia to concede and published on June 8 which is before the loss of these NATO carriers, which doesn't mean much to me.

KYli said:

I foresee that if Ukraine couldn't breakthrough Russian defense in strategical areas or cut off Russian land bridge. Then NATO might ask Ukraine to negotiate with Russia for a cease fire. The Minsk Agreements have given NATO 8 years to train and indoctrinate Ukrainian soldiers and population. NATO doesn't need to bleed Russia in one off.

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I highly doubt Russia is in the mood for negotiations after what happened in the past. Also, Russia know that time isn't on NATO's side. IMO, it's in Russia's interest to continue on "de-Nazifying" Ukraine and "de-militarizing" Europe.

Boltzmann said:

If this is real then it has to be sarcasm or out of context. There's no way they would negotiate before the end of this counteroffensive at the earliest, and they still have most of their dedicated manpower and equipment left despite recent losses. If I turn out to be wrong then by all means flame me but I seriously doubt it.

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it will end up like WWI, some sort of regime change will likely happen before either ukraine and russia will settle in talks.

Seems like Germany's worst fears came through, the Leopard 2's reputation is tarnished (even though it has more to do with failure in tactics than the tank itself)

This unit, a Russian Far East 'volunteers' special purpose group (referred to as 'BARS') is responsible for a lot of the damage in the Ugledar and the area between Ugledar and Zaporozhye. Here they flew Ka-52 Alligators on what is a turkey shoot on a column of Ukrainian vehicles, the first to be hit a Bradley M2. In the second scene in the first video, they used Krasnapols against Ukrainian positions in forest lines near Ugledar.



Russian Far Eastern volunteer pilots gets medals for their work.


Ka-52 working on another vehicular column.


There has been posts of this strike on a Ukrainian ammo depot before at Uman, Cherkasky region, Ukraine. But if you play the video to the end, this ends with one super massive explosion as worst as some we have seen recently.


This one is another M777 getting hit once again by a Lancet.


Ukrainian convoy gets attacked by Russian FPV drones, several vehicles targeted.

sndef888 said:

Seems like Germany's worst fears came through, the Leopard 2's reputation is tarnished (even though it has more to do with failure in tactics than the tank itself)

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There was no apparent mistake in tactics.
Attacks can fail due to enemy action, and this is how mechanized attack fail looks like. Second push, probably, was just an attempt to save the wounded, which won't last long in the summer heat.

There probably was a quite basic mistake in planning/training, probably on the NATO side - because not taking into account enemy air power ... sounds awfully them. Previous Ukrainian offensives fared better on the anti-air side of things.

Gloire_bb said:

There was no apparent mistake in tactics.
Attacks can fail due to enemy action, and this is how mechanized attack fail looks like. Second push, probably, was just an attempt to save the wounded, which won't last long in the summer heat.

There probably was a quite basic mistake in planning/training, probably on the NATO side - because not taking into account enemy air power ... sounds awfully them. Previous Ukrainian offensives fared better on the anti-air side of things.

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Agree. People are mocking the Ukrainians a lot for their losses but the reality is they are dependent on allies whose equipment and doctrine was developed entirely on the assumption of having overwhelming aerial superiority. Take that away and things get rough very quickly, regardless of how tacticly proficient one is.

Anlsvrthng said:

I presume you think that the NATO armies sports these superior charactaristics.

Based on what ?

Or in 2nd ww germany lost because of the lack of adaptability and good education ?
All that we know at the moment is the Ukrainan army, with good one year full spectrum combat experience , NATO support, training, inteligence, C&C and the best Pentagon kitchen sink doesn't show better results than Iraq in 91 .

MAybe this will change in coming days, maybe the NATO tanks will stomp the T-90ms, who know ?

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Based on getting their ass kicked in Korea, against shitty ass PVA. Seriously that was peak USA with A-bomb and veterans from WWII. Their colonial way of fighting do exceptionally well against weaker opponents, but is suicidal against equal or superior troops.

Try a thunder run against Russia and this is what you get. Try ask for air support in a contested air space and you get shot down. Now I am not dissing USA. Their maneuver and rapid fire support tactics are made with total aeiral dominance in mind. Americans have advantage in air and navy, it is correct for them to maximize these benefits. But if these assumptions are not met like Ukraine persueing these same tactics result in disaster.

This level of aerial dominance is frankly implausible for any other nation against reasonable oppenents. In other words these are crappy tactics for anyone not US.

Frankly I would say Ukraine did better with their own tactics compared to these western trained equipments and tactics.

sndef888 said:

Seems like Germany's worst fears came through, the Leopard 2's reputation is tarnished (even though it has more to do with failure in tactics than the tank itself)

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If there is any failure in tactics you cannot fault Ukrainians. These are NATO equipments designed and produced by NATO country, then the Ukrainian troops were trained by NATO officers over 8 years. The command structure is backed by NATO advisors and intelligence. Sometimes special forces from NATO assist directly. Everything is done as well as NATO can manage. The equipments are used the way they are meant to be. Sometimes it works out like in Kharkov front. This time it is a disaster and there is no blaming on Ukrainians.

Russian attack on Odessa. The trajectory of the munition is interesting to say the least. It speeds up quite a lot when it gets close to the target. Good luck intercepting that with a SPAAG.