The War in the Ukraine

MarKoz81

Junior Member
Registered Member
Perhaps this will be helpful - some time ago I prepared myself a cheat-sheet of visual identification for new AFU units in case the leaks proved genuine.

Deleted pictures of the Discord leaks. Please refrain from posting them since they haven’t been declassified, and any potential or current US government employee will be in significant trouble if they view them

I assume that because of the composition the brigades will fight as listed, not as individual battalions as it used to be earlier in the war. AFU brigades had battalions of mixed composition - each tank battalion had three companies of tanks and one company of mechanised infantry, each battalion of mechanised infantry had three companies of mechanised infantry and one company of tanks. Such formations when backed by artillery were in theory capable of individual combined arms operations on battalion level to match Russian BTG deployment. These new brigades have simpler structure, similar to Russian structure of 3x10 per battalion. In some cases there's likely 2x14 but they no longer have mixed composition and the use of 10-vehicle companies limits their tactical flexibility. That implies that they will have optimal effectiveness when deployed as brigades and because of that the equipment spotted on the front should match the unit which allows to infer the rest.



Ua New 1.jpg

Ua New 2.jpg

Ua New 3.jpg

The 82nd is the new Airborne brigade and per list above it has four rather than three maneuver battalions (3x Stryker, 1x Marder).

Artillery table for the new units:

arty table.jpg

Only the first three on the list (?5/??, 44 and 118) have 155mm arty in large amount including self-propelled systems. The rest have just the basic 2x6 or 3x4 "division" (battalion-equivalent for arty in UA/RU TOE). 82nd is Airborne so it has 24 towed light guns per standard TOE.

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Big propaganda win for Russia if true

Just so that we acknowledge existing in the same reality:
  • Leopard 2A4 was produced from 1985 to 1992 - that's 38 years ago to 31 years ago.
  • Leopard 2A6 was produced from 2001 to 2005 - that's 22 years ago to 18 years ago.
  • Kurdish rebels in Syria knocked out ~10 Turkish Leopard 2A4s in 2016.
Leopards are ordinary early 3rd generation tanks. L2A4 doesn't even have a particularly good frontal armour. It's estimated that it's weaker than T-72B obr. 1989 and T-80. There's nothing exceptional about them apart from their cross-country mobility which is indeed excellent, along with 30km/h speed in reverse, and very good gun stabilisation which exceeds anything Russia has currently - mostly because of how bad T-72/90/80 chassis is compared to Leopard's. Even the best stabilisers are useless if the rest of the tank is junk and the chassis of Russian tanks is junk.

I expect most Leopards to be destroyed during the offensive. Their loss doesn't matter as long as tactical and operational success is achieved.

In comparison: how many T-90Ms has Russia lost so far? Oryx counts 22. They probably would have lost a T-14 already if they were capable of putting a company of them in working condition. How is killing a Leopard a big win? Is Russia aspiring to be only as good as Kurdish rebels?

It look like they push at a lot of place on the front, don't know about the deepness of their reserves if it's the case. They will need to choose a direction if they want to make their advance stick.

That's not how an operation would be conducted. I don't see how Ukraine can achieve surprise in the current conditions so they have to set themselves up for a decisive blow that will come at a location known to Russia. Because of that they need to ensure that the conditions at that location are as advantageous to them as possible.

Ukraine has the advantage of position and logistics. They can pivot while Russia can't. They operate from a limited area that can be approximated by a triangle with vertices in Kharkiv, Horlivka and Zaporizhia. Each side of this triangle is approximately 300km and there are several logistical arteries that can be easily established inside that area. The depth of the front is the rest of the country.

Russia operates from a long, stretched-out front that is sustained by one or two logistical arteries usually along a railway line. They need that logistical line to be sustained for any quick troop redeployments and that maneuver will occur along predictable routes as for example the depth of the front between Zaporozhia and Donetsk is between 100-150km. The area around Starobilsk is poorly developed and similarly any troop movements are difficult.

So the correct solution for Ukraine would be to put pressure along the entire front, especially in key locations that could disrupt communication and logistics, to force the current force disposition to remain static and then use the advantage of space to execute maneuver at the rear of their own forces and strike at the desirable position with concentrated mass.

It's the same logic as a boxer taking the center of the ring and forcing the opponent to circle him around or be forces into a corner. Sometimes the circling works if the opponent is fast enough but Russia is currently even less mobile than Ukraine so Ukraine has the advantage of both position (center ring) and speed.

Contrary to what you may imagine it is a very bad decision to concentrate mass too early as modern weapons are absolutely lethal. The offensive would be over before it started unless Ukraine could suppress Russian fires which it can't. The losses in such short engagement would be much greater than "bloody" fighting along a largely static front. I think it may be why so much of this new force is wheeled - it allows Ukraine to execute maneuver along the roads at their rear while Russia is using primarily tracked equipment and lacks dedicated wheeled units because of the decision to equip a battalion in each motor rifle brigade with BTR-82A. If they had wheeled brigades they could counter AFU maneuver but their rapid reaction force is VDV which uses tracked BMDs which are bad at long-range (100+ km) operational maneuver or helicopters which have availability problems. So Ukraine has the advantage of space and mobility and from what I've seen so far this is the most logical solution to the offensive.

Hit in one or two places where a Russian loss will be painful, draw reinforcements then quickly withdraw and hit where decisive success can be achieved which is somewhere around Melitopol in my view because geographically it cuts off all of southern front and threatens Crimea. Anything else will be a surprise.
 
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baykalov

Senior Member
Registered Member
Update by @Rybar:

Vremievsky salient situation as of 18.00 June 5, 2023

East of the Vremievsky salient, an AFU armored group managed to push Russian troops out of Novodonetskoye. During the attack, for the first time, Ukrainian formations used German Leopard tanks - now there are two Leopards and five AFVs in Novodonetsk.

The AFU are regrouping as they suffered heavy losses in manpower. Also, Russian gunners destroyed 9 wheeled armored vehicles. West of Novodonetsk, about 10 pieces of equipment and 40-100 infantrymen were stationed in the forest belt.

In addition, the concentration of forces of the 37th Naval Infantry Brigade of the Ukrainian Navy in the direction of Urozhaynoye was noted. Most likely, the enemy plans to attack the flank of the Russian grouping once reserves arrive.



The both AMX 10RC abandoned vehicles seen from drone in the Ugledar direction…

Shot with two more abandoned French AMX-10RC wheeled tanks of the Ukrainian army.

The location and shape of the hatches, as well as the characteristic muzzle brake on one of the guns, leave no doubt about the vehicle model.

The fact that the cars were abandoned by their crews is indicated by open hatches.


 

Right_People

Junior Member
Registered Member
If they have multiple wheel fragged by artillery , it's futile to try to manoeuver with them... better to park them and hoping to recuperate them later.
They could have closed the hatch ...
So many vehicles in this war could have survived just by doing that ...

ColonelCassad says Neskuchnoye still not taken by the AFU, he claims he has contacts in the area.
But who knows ...
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Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
They could have closed the hatch ...
So many vehicles in this war could have survived just by doing that ...

ColonelCassad says Neskuchnoye still not taken by the AFU, he claims he has contacts in the area.
But who knows ...
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Yeah, a grenade tossing quad would wreck them, water too... But hatch closed they would receive an ATGM or krasnopol. Troop would not take chance against a tank that could fire at them. Hatch open give a white flag signal...
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
Where are the Korean 155mm shells ?

Without artirelly prep the units just killing themselves on the Russian defenses .

They need 50-100 k shells prepared and stored to have chance.As bare minimum. to have slight chance.

I feel pity for the poor Ukrainans. No ammunition, pile of random armament and vehicle diged up from the NATO scfrapyard..
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
Contrary to what you may imagine it is a very bad decision to concentrate mass too early as modern weapons are absolutely lethal. The offensive would be over before it started unless Ukraine could suppress Russian fires which it can't. The losses in such short engagement would be much greater than "bloody" fighting along a largely static front. I think it may be why so much of this new force is wheeled - it allows Ukraine to execute maneuver along the roads at their rear while Russia is using primarily tracked equipment and lacks dedicated wheeled units because of the decision to equip a battalion in each motor rifle brigade with BTR-82A. If they had wheeled brigades they could counter AFU maneuver but their rapid reaction force is VDV which uses tracked BMDs which are bad at long-range (100+ km) operational maneuver or helicopters which have availability problems. So Ukraine has the advantage of space and mobility and from what I've seen so far this is the most logical solution to the offensive.

Hit in one or two places where a Russian loss will be painful, draw reinforcements then quickly withdraw and hit where decisive success can be achieved which is somewhere around Melitopol in my view because geographically it cuts off all of southern front and threatens Crimea. Anything else will be a surprise.
Sorry, but I don't understand your point.

So, how the NATO armed units could do an offensive, you say that they should draw in short period of time (8 hours) every units onto one part of frontline, and try to push, or just pressurising in changing poisitons?

It is not clear for me based on your post .

And all of this without any means to supress the Russian artirelly ?
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Difficulty telling if the tank destroyed is Russian or Ukrainian. One source says this video is Russian and another says it's Ukrainian. What this feels to me is the camera POV is in the defensive position, and vehicles coming from the picture's top frame is in the offensive. Location is in the Zaporozhye front.


The aftermath of Russian artillery on a Ukrainian convoy.


Around 1:17 of this video you see Ukrainian vehicles tracked by drone and being hit by artillery.


Looks like a KAB or Kh-29 or Kh-59 hit on a Ukrainian airfield.


Some bad editing here. One part looks like a Ukrainian APC and troops attacking Russian soldiers at a forest line, then switched to Russian tanks firing at a forest line.


More MaxxPro getting destroyed.

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