The War in the Ukraine

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
I think you originally wanted to say that Patriots can intercept ballistic missiles better than S-300.

These is what you said:


So you believe that S-300 can be defeated easily by Kinzhal. Yet Patriot has neither better mobility nor a generationally superior radar which means it has neither a decisive advantage in survivability nor in interception. I didn't compare kinematics but from the sources the kinematics are also comparable.

This is an important question though: why does it seem like Patriots are intercepting more if Patriots aren't actually better?

1. Sample bias: more reporting is done on Patriots rather than S-300s.

2. Ammo limitations: Ukrainians need to conserve S-300 ammo because they can't get more easily so even if they can detect a threat they may hesitate to make a move, but they know they'll get Patriots for free.

They're not directly comparable, but even so, I don't see why Patriot's radar would be inferior. United States has a significantly better electronics industry than Russia, and the Patriot's MPQ-65 radar reached IOC in 2003, its significantly more modern than Ukraine's S-300.
 

SlothmanAllen

Junior Member
Registered Member
They're not directly comparable, but even so, I don't see why Patriot's radar would be inferior. United States has a significantly better electronics industry than Russia, and the Patriot's MPQ-65 radar reached IOC in 2003, its significantly more modern than Ukraine's S-300.
Do we know what version of the Patriot MPQ-65 the Ukrainian's have? Could they have the AESA AN/MPQ-65A?
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
Do we know what version of the Patriot MPQ-65 the Ukrainian's have? Could they have the AESA AN/MPQ-65A?

I haven't been able to find out, but I haven't put a lot of effort into looking tbf.

I doubt that Ukraine has the latest tech though, but who knows? Maybe U.S. wants to test out its latest and greatest.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
They're not directly comparable, but even so, I don't see why Patriot's radar would be inferior. United States has a significantly better electronics industry than Russia, and the Patriot's MPQ-65 radar reached IOC in 2003, its significantly more modern than Ukraine's S-300.
rad.jpg

Example becasue the S-300 use two radar for search and targeting, the patriot use a single one for both purpose.


And the search radar bigger than the patriot one.

How could be tha patriot better, if it is smaller, try to use the same radar for two purposes, can't give 360degree coverage ?

And the electronics claim rubish as well, the manufacturing technology of the antenas and the SIZE more important then the electronics.


In radars (and radiocumunication) the ANTENNA is the main thing, the electronics is just secondary consideration .
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
I wonder what happened with rest of the battery.
Who made the photo?

And how it get out ?

Russia quickly declasified the photos , or a scrapper find the command post in the wildreness , or the Ukrainan own the truck and the hanger where it was ?

I mean, we haven't got photos of the impacts in Kiev, but a lost s-400 command post photo is public ?
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
View attachment 113610

Example becasue the S-300 use two radar for search and targeting, the patriot use a single one for both purpose.


And the search radar bigger than the patriot one.

How could be tha patriot better, if it is smaller, try to use the same radar for two purposes, can't give 360degree coverage ?

Because there are several performance characteristics we measure, when we assess radar performance. Not just its azimuth angle.

And the electronics claim rubish as well, the manufacturing technology of the antenas and the SIZE more important then the electronics.


In radars (and radiocumunication) the ANTENNA is the main thing, the electronics is just secondary consideration .

Uh huh. And what is the size comparison? The power?

It is a bit ridiculous to me, to simply claim that either system has an inferior radar system without mentioning any relevant specs. I'm not going to claim that Patriot is the superior system, but based on its age, size, and US extensive history and experience at crafting radar systems, I find it highly unlikely that United States cannot build a system with a superior radar than what USSR's mid 80s MIC was capable of.

Unless somebody wants to provide some actual facts, the claim that either system is better is largely unsubstantiated.
 
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