The War in the Ukraine

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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Deino said:
MilitaryWatchMagazine is pure BS and "Russia will have a full regiment of Su-57s ready" is claimed since years and still nothing happened! And even if, I don't think this will in any way change the outcome of this war.
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Russian air regiments typically have 4 squadrons. From what I read observers expect each regiment to get 1 or 2 squadrons of Su-57 and the other squadrons are supposed to use the Su-35. But given the present conflict they might make a smaller regiment with only a couple squadrons of the Su-57 to test things out once they get enough aircraft. It would not be the first time they did something like that. Each squadron has 12 aircraft. So the Russians likely could put the first composite or reduced regiment with 1 or 2 squadrons of Su-57 in service next year if they wanted to.

Right_People said:
I posted this video in the thread about Russian weapons, the plant that produces them seems to be working 100% on the Su35 and 57.
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There is also the sporadic news more related to the manufacturing industry, in 2022 new workshops were opened regarding the application of invisible paint and some bases receiving upgraded hangars for aircraft.
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The production rate of the Su-57 was supposed to increase from 4 aircraft a year to 9 a year (I think) once the new paint facilities were available.

To further increase production will likely require moving production lines from the Su-35 to the Su-57. From what we know they will have to deliver aircraft from the latest Su-35 state order and the possible contract with Iran. So they won't be shutting down the Su-35 lines over the next year I think.

As for if the Su-57 will make an impact on the conflict or not. I guess it depends on how long it lasts.

SolarWarden said:
Girkin has a different opinion about Bakhmut being a win
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Equipping and training the mobilized was a bit of a mess to say the least. Mobilizing a million men or more at once like Girkin wanted to do would likely not have worked all that well. What they should have done though, I think, was issue a stop loss order before the contracts of the troops in combat expired and star revving up the MIC right when the war started. But I think the Russian government was still operating under the assumption they were going to sign some sort of cease fire and get concessions of neutrality from Ukraine early in the conflict. And they might have hadn't Boris Johnson convinced the Ukrainian government to do otherwise.
 
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Right_People

Junior Member
Registered Member
FairAndUnbiased said:
I believe Su-57 is a substantial upgrade over Su-35 in terms of air to air alone. From my understanding, one of the biggest contributors to aircraft RCS is the retroreflector effect from externally carried munitions. So even just internal munitions alone, with nothing else, are enough to substantially lower RCS.

This should give it a huge advantage over F-16s, along with the better kinematics from 2 engine, thrust vectoring, etc.
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I don't think there will be an F-16 vs Su-57 to be honest, overall I think it will be an F-16 vs S-300 fight in all its variants and other systems.

The most interesting Su-57 variable is the ground attack variable, for some reason the Felon is always presented as an air superiority fighter, but the Su-57 is designed to be multirole from the beginning, this has been said many times by designers and pilots.
I remember one pilot saying:
"Our main advantage over the F-35 is that it is a fighter made 80% for ground attack and 20% for air, our aircraft is 50%-50%."

And in general it makes sense with the systems the aircraft is known to have, in general each Su-57 involves additional ground surveillance sensors, of which Russia had very few at the beginning of the war, as well as electronic warfare systems and as a communications node due to the Su-57's projected drone control role.
The air-to-air role in the context of this war seems to me to be secondary for this machine.
 
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SolarWarden

Junior Member
Registered Member
Abominable said:
It's pretty strange that it was only a few weeks ago Wagner were complaining about Bakhmut, claiming the Ukrainians were being successful in their counter attack. Then all of a sudden we hear nothing and Russians have taken over the town without much drama.

I think it was a maskirovka to try and get the Ukrainians to commit more troops to the meatgrinder the Russians had set up. The Ukrainians had been doing this for months, but it looks like they finally listened to their western advisors and withdrew from the town.
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Prigo was sounding the alarm of Ukraine making a move on their flanks (north and south) which they still are somewhat not the center itself.
 
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Abominable

Major
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
Russian air regiments typically have 4 squadrons. From what I read observers expect each regiment to get 1 or 2 squadrons of Su-57 and the other squadrons are supposed to use the Su-35. But given the present conflict they might make a smaller regiment with only a couple squadrons of the Su-57 to test things out once they get enough aircraft. It would not be the first time they did something like that. Each squadron has 12 aircraft. So the Russians likely could put the first composite or reduced regiment with 1 or 2 squadrons of Su-57 in service next year if they wanted to.


The production rate of the Su-57 was supposed to increase from 4 aircraft a year to 9 a year (I think) once the new paint facilities were available.

To further increase production will likely require moving production lines from the Su-35 to the Su-57. From what we know they will have to deliver aircraft from the latest Su-35 state order and the possible contract with Iran. So they won't be shutting down the Su-35 lines over the next year I think.

As for if the Su-57 will make an impact on the conflict or not. I guess it depends on how long it lasts.

Equipping and training the mobilized was a bit of a mess to say the least. Mobilizing a million men or more at once like Girkin wanted to do would likely not have worked all that well. What they should have done though, I think, was issue a stop loss order before the contracts of the troops in combat expired and star revving up the MIC right when the war started. But I think the Russian government was still operating under the assumption they were going to sign some sort of cease fire and get concessions of neutrality from Ukraine early in the conflict. And they might have hadn't Boris Johnson convinced the Ukrainian government to do otherwise.
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Even a single squadron of Su-57s will have a significant impact on the Ukrainian war.

Unlike the F-35 which was fundamentally flawed from design, the biggest obstacle the Su-57 was a lack of state investment. Now that Russia is taking its defence seriously again, it looks like many of these Cold War era projects are progressing at lightning speed.

Going from having a testbed number of planes to having 4-5 squadrons deployed in 2 years is an impressive achievement for Russia with all its had to deal with. I was a big Su-57 sceptic but it looks like I was wrong.
 
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drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
Russian air regiments typically have 4 squadrons. From what I read observers expect each regiment to get 1 or 2 squadrons of Su-57 and the other squadrons are supposed to use the Su-35. But given the present conflict they might make a smaller regiment with only a couple squadrons of the Su-57 to test things out once they get enough aircraft. It would not be the first time they did something like that. Each squadron has 12 aircraft. So the Russians likely could put the first composite or reduced regiment with 1 or 2 squadrons of Su-57 in service next year if they wanted to.


The production rate of the Su-57 was supposed to increase from 4 aircraft a year to 9 a year (I think) once the new paint facilities were available.

To further increase production will likely require moving production lines from the Su-35 to the Su-57. From what we know they will have to deliver aircraft from the latest Su-35 state order and the possible contract with Iran. So they won't be shutting down the Su-35 lines over the next year I think.

As for if the Su-57 will make an impact on the conflict or not. I guess it depends on how long it lasts.


Equipping and training the mobilized was a bit of a mess to say the least. Mobilizing a million men or more at once like Girkin wanted to do would likely not have worked all that well. What they should have done though, I think, was issue a stop loss order before the contracts of the troops in combat expired and star revving up the MIC right when the war started. But I think the Russian government was still operating under the assumption they were going to sign some sort of cease fire and get concessions of neutrality from Ukraine early in the conflict. And they might have hadn't Boris Johnson convinced the Ukrainian government to do otherwise.
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it does seem like that russia's MIC is somewhat in full swing now. 9 Su-57 a year is a bit pathetic but aside from the G2 this is as good as it gets for any country.

russia needs to continue tapping into the production capacity of North Korea and Iran, at least with their assistance russia would have enough shells.
 
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H2O

Junior Member
Registered Member
Although it took time to get used to the J-20, the Su-57 was love at first sight. Hats off to the Su-57 designers. I'm sure AF Brat would agree if he's still here. (And yes I know this isn't a fashion show to all the J-20 fans out there). In any case, I don't believe there will be a F-16 vs Su-57. Once the F-35 makes it's debut in Ukraine then that might change.


Abominable said:
This will be the first time in recent years a western air platform has come up against a Soviet one without the deck stacked in its favour. Since internet forums were a thing people fanboys have been arguing about this topic.

Talk is cheap, time to put up. Whoever loses I don't want to hear any excuses.
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Unless there's vast differences in capabilities, the problem with these A vs B debates is the difficulty in measuring the pilot's skill. And then there's the Luck factor (i.e. Red Baron) to consider.


Jingle Bells said:
Again, Colin Powell even have the audacity to wave his little vial of laundry powder to the UN security council. What make you think they can't bullshit to some news press?
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IMHO, we're getting to the point where politicians don't care on whether the narrative makes any sense to the public or not (i.e. shovels).
 
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Right_People

Junior Member
Registered Member
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Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
The current upgrade is kind of lame anyway since it seems they are not putting the Irbis-E radar in them as planned.
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Sm-2 ? Well it has that leading edge mounted Radar/IFF so clearly it doesnt have Bars. it has Irbis which doesnt have IFF integrated in its main array.
 
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