The War in the Ukraine

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
How easy is it for a fpv headset to switch drones maybe it's interesting to send 3 or 4 drones at once and then send them in one after each other to double or triple tap the enemy.
For cheap marked FPV drones, the problem is not headset, the problem is switching controls....You need some hard lock with controls before leaving them so switching on the same controler is not feasible for cheap fpv drones. You need multiple active receptors to make it works.

For the video feed you can switch between cheap fpv drones quite easily to see the video feed but if it's cheap commercial drones...your enemy can see your feed too. When I hear a drone around the house I can just grab my fpv goggles and I can see the feed when I do a frequency scan. Analog goggles for analog feed and digital one for digital feed. It exist some commercial video feed scramblers but it give you way bigger latency for controls.

It's probably the last war with armies unprepared against them. The loose ends will be rounded up soon enough for cheap suicide quads and rc planes made from commercial stuff.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
WSJ article on how its getting hard to recruit people and hand over summons in Ukraine, with the SBU shutting down Telegram channels reporting were recruiters are active

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

A 37-year-old native of Kyiv left Ukraine in February after paying close to $10,000 for three different schemes. He had owned a small business selling car parts in the Ukrainian capital but said it fell apart when the war started.

The man said he first paid $2,500 for a student card from a Warsaw university, and an official spot on one of the university’s courses. But the day after he received the card in September, Ukraine said it was no longer allowing male students to leave. A friend had a contact at a draft office, and the businessman paid the contact $3,000 for documents listing him as unfit for service. The contact took his money and stopped answering his calls, he said.
Talk about unlucky.
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
If drone cost minus controller is roughly 500-1000 per unit, I think the cost actually stacks in favour of the drone. Of course the firepower is smaller, but US was using GPS mortar or that ginsu hellfire they were bragging about which would be a lot less cost efficient.
 

CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
Given that the article is recent then it has worked out so far. Or is your alternative plan to become a 4 hour body bag in bakhmut?
There are better ways to escape than paying a random stranger that stops taking your calls right after receiving your cash.
 

HereToSeePics

Junior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
FPV drones are actually pretty bad for combat use if opfor deploys even basic countermeasures like jammers. Using FPVs as suicide bombs means you need to get within literal touching distance of your target. The closer you get to a jammer, the greater it’s power and effectiveness.

Jamming commercial/recreational drones (operating in the 2.4ghz and 5.2-5.8ghz spectrum) is actually a lot harder in practice and nothing like the silver bullet most people see in the movies. Jamming airborn threats(either military or consumer) falls into 2 paradigms - wide area jamming or directional-targeted jamming at a specific threat.

When people think wide-area jamming, they usually envision something like a bubble that covers 100meters+ to 1km out at ground level. Anything less than <50m is ineffective because the momentum of a drone on a crash trajectory will still be enough to carry it close enough to a target where the blast radius of small munitions will be enough to do damage. So to throw RF interference out 100m+ you actually need a fairly powerful stationary jammer that throws out at least double digit watts of RF power. These kind of amplifiers are not cheap or easy to get because they are not mass produced because theres very few civilian and consumer applications for such powerful transmitters(the WiFI transmitter in your wireless router runs at <1W for instance). To run a jamming station capable of throwing RF power in the low hundred of watts across 3-4 frequencies to cover consumer drones, that will require running a stationary gas generator (or hooked up to a vehicle's running electrical system) running 24/7 to maintain 24/7 jamming coverage. And you would want to maintain a 24/7 jamming bubble because if your only means of detecting an incoming drone is audio/visual, by the time you hear it, it's probably too late. This is impractical to do in the Ukraine near or around the front lines mostly due to logistics like fuel, power and constant shifting positions, not to mention stationary RF sources throwing out hundred watts of RF power will make the station a big target for anti-adiation counterattacks.

For directional jamming - this was seen earlier in social media posts from both sides where you see infantry aiming plastic rifles-looking devices with battery packs and antennas on them at a specific aerial threat. These devices typically throw out a few watts of power, not enough to create a "bubble", but are directed at a specific airborne target to bring it down, so it focuses all its limited RF energy in a very narrow band for a distance up to a few hundred meters out. The problems with this jamming solution is that it's highly limited in scope and you'll need someone on station constantly doing visually or audio searching for drones. Also, this counter drone measure can be mitigated by a change in tactics by the drone operator by flying higher and faster, and making the jammer operator lose track of the drone. Spotting the drone is also a challenge since by the time you spot it, it's also too late by the time you get the directional jamming device. Another problem is spotting a small consumer type drone a couple hundred meters above ground level against a bright sun lit sky or in early morning/late evening with limited lighting is impossibly hard.


To be honest they cost like $1k for a full set including fpv goggles, there isn't anything super hightech inside of them and they are easy to mass produce, the only surprise should be why it took so long.

Basic DJI FPV drones clock in at $1k plus goggles, so your $1k drone is actually on the higher end of what such drones should cost since they are essentially consumables. ATGMs are the wrong comparison since those are designed to take out million dollar tanks, not line grunts.

From the reports I've seen in the Ukraine conflict, DJI drones like the Mavic and Air are mostly used for reconnaissance and spotting now. Actual suicide drones with munitions probably use the DJI FPV Air unit(or similar) for sending commands to the flight controller on the drone and the video transmission to the headset (goggles), but the air units are relatively cheap at a couple hundred dollars.

1679779365548.png


The goggles and transmitter are the more expensive components, but those are reusable across multiple drone bodies. The second biggest cost are the batteries, the bigger the battery - the larger load it can carry and further it can fly. This basically puts each suicide FPV drone at around 400-600 each, excluding the cost of the munition.

How easy is it for a fpv headset to switch drones maybe it's interesting to send 3 or 4 drones at once and then send them in one after each other to double or triple tap the enemy.

As easy as pairing a bluetooth headset to your phone. Actually, it's almost exactly the same process. As of now, each DJI goggle set can only pair with 1 drone at a time, thus only operate 1 drone at a time.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
When people think wide-area jamming, they usually envision something like a bubble that covers 100meters+ to 1km out at ground level. Anything less than <50m is ineffective because the momentum of a drone on a crash trajectory will still be enough to carry it close enough to a target where the blast radius of small munitions will be enough to do damage. So to throw RF interference out 100m+ you actually need a fairly powerful stationary jammer that throws out at least double digit watts of RF power. These kind of amplifiers are not cheap or easy to get because they are not mass produced because theres very few civilian and consumer applications for such powerful transmitters(the WiFI transmitter in your wireless router runs at <1W for instance). To run a jamming station capable of throwing RF power in the low hundred of watts across 3-4 frequencies to cover consumer drones, that will require running a stationary gas generator (or hooked up to a vehicle's running electrical system) running 24/7 to maintain 24/7 jamming coverage. And you would want to maintain a 24/7 jamming bubble because if your only means of detecting an incoming drone is audio/visual, by the time you hear it, it's probably too late. This is impractical to do in the Ukraine near or around the front lines mostly due to logistics like fuel, power and constant shifting positions, not to mention stationary RF sources throwing out hundred watts of RF power will make the station a big target for anti-adiation counterattacks.
One way to save power is to have a listen mode for the jammer. The jammer will only turn on the blast mode when predefined radiation are detected.
Maybe place multiple antennas around the jammer to increase the effective range of the detector.
 

HereToSeePics

Junior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
One way to save power is to have a listen mode for the jammer. The jammer will only turn on the blast mode when predefined radiation are detected.
Maybe place multiple antennas around the jammer to increase the effective range of the detector.

Would probably have too many false signals because the common consumer drones(and build your own FPV components) operate on the unregulated 2.4ghz and 5.2-5.8ghz spectrum - the same as wifi and bluetooth (some of them even use wifi protocols for data). This means wifi networks, a hot spot, someone forgetting to airplane mode their phone or even bluetooth headphones will potentially trigger a false positive. It also doesn't solve the problem with base stations with this kind of setup being not mobile - if you're on the front lines, the last thing you want to think about is spending 30-60 minutes setting up the power, an antenna mast(because the higher the emitter is, the more area it can cover) and operator station every time you move positions
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
Another article about manpower in Ukraine, this time about the current bickering, corruption and lies within the Foreing Legion after James Vasquez was exposed as a fraud who scammed millions in donations and never saw combat.

Lot of issues with the legion and from the original 20.000 only 1.500 are left.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Top