The War in the Ukraine

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Evacuating Bakhmut as Wagner closes in all directions. Easter side of Bakhmut has fallen. Wagner DRG has crossed the river to the west side. Wagner units have stormed the Azom industrial complex. Prigozhyn visits building only 1.2 km from the center. In the meantime a crucial village north of Avdiivka has fallen and another city threatened with encirclement.


Evacuating wounded Ukrainians.



Ukrainian father and son have been fighting together since November and both died at the same day in Bakhmut.


Muddy roads being used to retreat had become deadly fire traps by Russian artillery. Not completing encirclement but letting your opponents retreat, then hit them with projectiles while doing so, that's classic Mongol tactics.
 

MarKoz81

Junior Member
Registered Member
Mr. Koffman visited Kherson frontlines too when it was still Russian-occupied. He said he did not believe Russia would leave Kherson without being forcibly evicted by force (i.e., Russia won't give up without a fight). He ended up very wrong...

On the contrary. He was very right. That's exactly what happened. But you can't tell because fog of war obscures the picture on the ground and the media narrative is overflowing with either psy-ops or sensationalism influencing your emotional state. You can't think with emotions only feel and feeling is not understanding. But even if you focused on the data from the front you still wouldn't read it because you don't know how.

For that you need to know Russian doctrine.

Doctrine is the way that a military perceives and shapes the battlefield. It's a language of war for a particular culture. When two cultures come to war it is an argument conducted in their respective languages of war. If you don't know the language then you can't read the content which is the situation on the battlefield. And when fog of war and propaganda obscures the text and you only get scattered bits - a word here, a letter there - you can't even attempt to reconstruct the text so that someone can translate it for you. But if you know the language you can guess the content and fill the blanks with high likelihood of being correct. Otherwise it's random signs without context. Doctrine is context.

Koffman is an expert on Russian doctrine. Not equipment or history but doctrine. His expertise is in how Russian view the battle and how they will behave in it. And he is a public figure, a professional employed by a federal research institute with numerous publications in the field of Russian doctrine.

Koffman knows what he's talking about but he has a public post so he has to be careful with his words. And that confuses you because you're used to online commentary that pretends to know everything. That's the difference between experts and grifters. Real experts are careful not to mislead at the expense of not saying all they suspect because the role of an expert is to allow you to rely on their opinion. Grifters just want your money/clicks.

Let me explain how knowing doctrine plays into the situation in Kherson.

Russian doctrine is very rigid. It is a very top-down structure of narrow objectives and "what is permitted is permitted" as opposed to broad objectives and mission command approach of "what is not forbidden is permitted" in America doctrine. This creates a very inflexible and inefficient system for warfighting but it is also a very stable and safe system for maintaining peace in Russia. Russian military has never been fully under control under civilian authority for any long period of time. Russian military is too large for Russian society and political system to be fully subsumed even when it is under civilian control. Compare the numbers in America, China, India etc. So internal stability is prioritized over external flexibility. This is why in Russian military the commanders are so afraid of taking up initiative. The system doesn't recognize or reward initiative. It punishes it. If you take up initiative and fail it is your fault. So to protect themselves commanders employ "what is expressly permitted is permitted" an even narrower interpretation of the command doctrine. That's great if you want to prevent mutinies. Not great if you want to surprise your enemy.

This is why Russians kept assaulting Vuhledar repeatedly with the same failed tactic. This is why Charnobayevka happened multiple times. That's because their orders were specific and only what the order said could be used to protect the commander. It doesn't matter that the equipment is lost and soldiers are killed. The commander executed the order to the letter in the safest possible manner and because Russian doctrine doesn't emphasize initiative he can't be disciplined for lack of it. And that goes up the chain of command all the way to Putin. This is how Russian military operates and how it largely always operated. They don't know any other way. And even if they are forced to show initiative they will never do anything that isn't in the manual because to do it is extremely risky. Especially if you're the only one breaking the rules and everyone else refuses to break rules to aid you. That's even worse than doing it by the book.

Because of that if you know Russian operational and tactical doctrine you can guess what is happening on the ground with very good accuracy even from fragmentary data because you know how Russia sees the problem and the solutions. Also you can apply numbers but 10k limit won't let me give examples and it's already a long post. I measured front lengths and arty ranges and force density. It checks out.

Here's what we know - quickly.

24 Feb - 18 Mar: push and retreat
Kherson direction - phase 1.jpg

18 Mar - 28 Apr: consolidation
Kherson direction - phase 2.jpg

In May the frontlines stabilized on 28/4 lines. The question was whether Ukraine would find necessary strength to push on. Because Russia outranged and outnumbered Ukraine with fires the proportion of 2,5:1 or higher would have to be met and AFU wasn't there yet. The front was stable because Russia had insufficient numbers to secure the entire length per doctrine but fires advantage meant that Ukraine wouldn't get in range.

In June/July HIMARS began operations and that put the only three crossing on Dnipro under fire - Antonovsky and railway bridge in Kherson and Nova Kakhovka dam. From that moment Ukraine was able to slowly reduce Russian front using numerical advantage however the numbers weren't there yet particularly with artillery. HIMARS gave AFU advantage in precision and range but not numbers in division fires. Brigade fires were still too weak and too few. Also it turned out that equipment for reserve units wasn't available in sufficient numbers so 5th Tank Brigade in Odessa couldn't be put into action until tanks came from Poland.

Table from 18 Jul
L to R: unit, tank, mech, inf and arty bat., mbt, ifv and arty qty.
B - b-de, P- rgt, Z - mech, Panc - tank, Zmot - motor inf., BPM - marines, B/PPD - VDV
stats X-Z.jpg

In July/August Russia began to reinforce the front with additional units incl. 3 Corps. Probably to deter any early AFU push.

Russia also began to move all VDV units - except 31st Bde near Bakhmut IIRC - to Kherson in an unprecedented breach with doctrine. I didn't understand why but this war was so confusing that I assumed it's another improvisation. It turned out that VDV was used as a screening force to allow exhausted and depleted Ground Force units to reorganize and withdraw. No mobilization yet so VDV had full complement and army didn't.

Russia began withdrawing from Kherson in August but did so very slowly and in small increments so as not to trigger AFU push.

In September the "counter-offensive" in Kherson was very limited and AFU HQ issued a blackout on troop movements. I think it wasn't to hide concentration but lack of it. All the reinforcements went to Kharkiv. Which means that Russia must have withdrawn a significant portion of heavy forces before then because otherwise it would make sense to entrap them in Kherson where retreat was easily disrupted by HIMARS. Not so in Kharkiv.

From Sept - analysis of potential movements. Yellow is crossings. Also Oskil can be easily bridged while Dnipro can't. Note that it largely matches except 10a,11a, 11b, 10/11b and 10/11c vectors because 1st Tank Army was relocated to that area.

Oskil-Luhansk 800px.jpg

Also data on Russian arty and airstrikes in Kherson confirmed that there weren't sufficient forces massing. Only the crossings near Davidovy Brod were targeted more intensely and briefly.

In September/October I got reliable info about temporary truces in Kherson that were kept secret that allowed Russia to evacuate and spare lives on both sides in what was inevitable at that point. Ukraine would wait before following up to "check for ambushes and traps" but it was to cover up the deal. The fighting was very limited and essentially Ukraine moved forward after Russia vacated an area.

This is situation lasted from 4 Oct - a month!
X-22-11-04-1300-EN.jpg

When the clip of Surovikin receiving an order to conduct a withdrawal from Shoigu was aired on 9 Nov the entire operation was already done. Lives were spared.

Kharkiv push might have been deliberately allowed to draw away forces from Kherson. With sufficient numbers AFU could destroy all of Russian forces on west bank but wouldn't be able to cross Dnipro. Because regaining territory is political priority for Ukraine and the Kharkiv-Izyum direction was going nowhere due to terrain, insufficient force and efficient AFU defense Russia likely decided to withdraw, consolidate front behind Oskil river and trade ground for forces in Kherson. In the end the "huge" losses during the Kharkiv counter-offensive weren't nearly as large as they could be if west bank was retaken by force. Oryx counted ~100 mbt, ~ 200 ifv/apc by 17/9 but many could have been damaged earlier and troops retreated. In Kherson the losses would be at least 3x larger and troops would not retreat. The damage to Kherson and AFU losses would have been very high and so a trade was preferable.

It was an implicit deal. How you communicate intention is described in historical literature. Matches doctrinal solutions. It checks out to me.

Koffman was right - Russia was "forcibly evicted". But as they went they retreated skillfully minimizing losses. These two are different things.
 

delta115

Junior Member
Registered Member
OK, now it's just a rumour that Pakistan is looking to transfer the T-80UD to Ukraine.

Also there are other rumours that Thailand is looking to transfer its BTR-3 and other arms purchases from Ukraine back to Ukraine.

Probably not true for Thailand.

Because if Thai government did that, opposition party would cry about it 24/7 about wasting tax money and drag us into conflict.
The only party that will be happy with this news would be Soros puppet and I doubt they will shut up about it either.
 

baykalov

Senior Member
Registered Member
NATO tactics are suddenly why Russia is doing well. History shows that Russian forces adapt during the course of a war and change up tactics to suit the situation. It has been seen many times over 100s of years of history. It is very well documented during WWII and proxy wars like Vietnam and etc... Outside Bakhmut, Russian troops mimic NATO fighting strategy used by Ukrainians The Russian army, a Ukrainian officer said, is no longer sticking to the Soviet playbook that led it to a series of defeats early in the war. Instead, they now appear to be mimicking tactics that Ukrainian troops learned over years of training by NATO. The key difference between the two styles of warfare is that NATO encourages local commanders to make snap decisions on the ground rather than constantly waiting for orders from above.

Outside Bakhmut, Russian troops mimic NATO fighting strategy used by Ukrainians
In Lyman, Captain Andriy Malakhov is watching with concern as invaders’ strategies evolve and Kyiv debates next moves

Captain Andriy Malakhov, commander of the Wild Steppe battalion in Lyman, gave The Globe and Mail a frank assessment of how Russian tactics have changed on the eastern front.

The Russian army, he said, is no longer sticking to the Soviet playbook that led it to a series of defeats early in the war. Instead, they now appear to be mimicking tactics that Ukrainian troops learned over years of training by NATO. The key difference between the two styles of warfare is that NATO encourages local commanders to make snap decisions on the ground rather than constantly waiting for orders from above.

“They’ve learned a lot from us, and now they’re using our tactics against us. They’re more dangerous now,” Capt. Malakhov told The Globe and Mail on Monday in Lyman, where artillery fire was audible throughout the day. He said Russian shelling also appears to be growing more accurate, something he believes may be a result of captured Ukrainian artillery officers being forced to show their Russian counterparts how to use specially designed targeting apps.

More flexible tactics – along with the greater motivation that comes with defending your home soil – were among the few advantages the Ukrainian army had over the past year while largely holding off an invading force several times its size. Without that edge, Capt. Malakhov was openly pessimistic about Ukraine’s ability to continue trading blows with the larger Russian force.

Russia, he said, has an artillery advantage of roughly 10 guns to one along the front line in Donbas – an advantage that’s accentuated in the Lyman area by a major highway that runs just behind the Russian lines, connecting the occupied cities of Kreminna and Svatove.

“Their tanks drive off the highway, take shots at us, then get back on the highway and disappear. Same with their self-propelled artillery,” he said. “They dominate in every way. But it’s our land. We have a different mentality than they do.”

Capt. Malakhov acknowledged that his unit’s losses were “high” and that it was getting more difficult for the special forces unit – which reports directly to General Valery Zaluzhny, the commander of Ukraine’s Armed Forces – to find suitable replacements. He said the current fighting in Donbas was the worst the Wild Steppe has seen. “We need victories. When you deliver more victories, you get a second wind and your fatigue doesn’t matter.”

There is escalating debate over whether Ukraine should withdraw from Bakhmut – after seven months of fighting – to more defensible positions west of the city.

Capt. Malakhov said pulling back would allow Ukrainian artillery to be used more freely, without fear of hitting friendly troops defending the Bakhmut pocket. Heavy weaponry being used to defend the city could also be redeployed to support troops holding other parts of a front line that is hundreds of kilometres long.

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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Previously seen a video where the Lancet used to describe the kill was a "Lancet-3M". This means it's modification of the Lancet-3. However I thought of the possibility that it was a typographic error until this post in the Vorposte Telegram channel that such a drone exists. The nature of modification itself is classified on top of we don't know much about the original Lancet 3 that itself derives from the original Lancet.

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Shadow_Whomel

Junior Member
Registered Member
Probably not true for Thailand.

Because if Thai government did that, opposition party would cry about it 24/7 about wasting tax money and drag us into conflict.
The only party that will be happy with this news would be Soros puppet and I doubt they will shut up about it either.
Bro, think outside the box a bit.

The after sales service on these Ukrainian vehicles is 100% fucked, unless you think the Ukrainians will still help you maintain them at the end of the war. They are now one of the few "Soviet" weapon systems on the market that are in good condition and still have a high value. If the war is over, these vehicles will soon face a shortage of parts, so it is better to sell them now for new ones. As for the excuse, naturally, there are quality problems with these vehicles.

I am not suggesting that Thailand needs to take sides, but the future of these vehicles is in doubt.
 

Zichan

Junior Member
Registered Member
NATO tactics are suddenly why Russia is doing well. History shows that Russian forces adapt during the course of a war and change up tactics to suit the situation. It has been seen many times over 100s of years of history. It is very well documented during WWII and proxy wars like Vietnam and etc... Outside Bakhmut, Russian troops mimic NATO fighting strategy used by Ukrainians The Russian army, a Ukrainian officer said, is no longer sticking to the Soviet playbook that led it to a series of defeats early in the war. Instead, they now appear to be mimicking tactics that Ukrainian troops learned over years of training by NATO. The key difference between the two styles of warfare is that NATO encourages local commanders to make snap decisions on the ground rather than constantly waiting for orders from above.

Outside Bakhmut, Russian troops mimic NATO fighting strategy used by Ukrainians


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M. Koffman was in Bakhmut 10 days ago. He described the conflict as largely a war of two Soviet armies against each other, with occasional innovations on both sides. Ukraine is more ahead in the post-Soviet doctrines, but not terribly so.

He said if he had to pick one system that provided the greatest impact for Ukraine it would be a civilian and not military one: Starlink.
 
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