The War in the Ukraine

GodRektsNoobs said:

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Russian artillery strikes on Ukrainian mechanized column near Soledar sometime during the battle. That's some extremely accurate hits. I wonder if the Russians were using guided artillery shells?

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Most of the hits don’t appear to be artillery as you can see very clearly the smoke trails from shapes charge detonations, which I am not aware of any Krasnopol variants to use. The explosions are also rather small and puny for 152/155mm.

It seems more likely these vehicles were hit but ATGMs with a sprinkling of artillery also trying to help out.

Stealthflanker said:

I'm curious tho why Russians dont seem to be interested in fully Satellite guided projectile like Excalibur.

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They probably need a better satellite constellation and satellite guided projectile can still be jammed.

Laser guided is a pain because you need a designator but it's way better for mobile targets. You can block it too with special smoke launcher and electro-optical active protection system like Shtora-1 that will make it less precise. It will fall near but in a convoy it can still do some carnage.

In any case, on fresh static targets, you need some kind of designator for gps too... the enemy don't send you their coordinate by sms. So a counter battery radar, a drone or troops need to give you coordinate.

Any possibility of these Western origin tanks to be operated by NATO affiliated personnels?

RottenPanzer said:

Any possibility of these Western origin tanks to be operated by NATO affiliated personnels?

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Yes and kinda big certainty it will. Especially if there is no time to train enough personnel. However those NATO personnel manning them could be considered mercenary and their home country may deny their involvement.

RottenPanzer said:

Any possibility of these Western origin tanks to be operated by NATO affiliated personnels?

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You'd probably need too many of the NATO personnel for it to be practical. And they'll be in the thick of fighting.

If Ukrainians can already be schooled in to drive T-55s, they should be able to drive Leopard 2. If anything, the latter is probably more user friendly.

Honestly the quality of NATO personnel if you isolate them from their own formation, give them a tank and tell them to integrate into an Ukrainian formation, might as well be worse than the quality of normal Ukrainian mobilized.

Both aren't gonna be very prepared the first time they meet a foe that actually fires back, but the mobilized has ties to the land, cultural ties to the rest of his unit, and has been trained to fight in the Ukrainian manner.

RottenPanzer said:

Any possibility of these Western origin tanks to be operated by NATO affiliated personnels?

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Wouldn't put it past them to do such a thing. They already have plenty of brits among their ranks so they could conveniently "find" enough to crew them. They might suffer the same issue a lot of other mercs have had, where the fight against Russia isn't anything like Iraq or Afghanistan, which might cause them to bail at the first sign of a problem

BMP-2M spotted in Kremina


Ukranian troops looking for cover in Bakhmut get harassed by artillery fire

Now Zaluzhny is saying that the strikes on Kiev were carried out with S-400

Russia cancelled yesterday's POW exchange. Maybe it is related to the video of ukranian soldiers extorting money out of russian POW's relative to not torture them

NATO's head honcho admits NATO has been operating in Ukraine since 2014

Stealthflanker said:

So what makes them unwilling or unable to take one from active stock and instead use that mothballed one to replace the previously donated Leopard's. ?

Or maybe the active inventory is already at standard that they were not willing to sacrifice ?




This kinda given tho... the effect would be Ukraine must train loader. which can be drawn from new recruits or reduce the size of their tank platoon, sacrificing a tank so 3 leopards or chally can have a loader.

and Weight is not really an issue i think, Leopards and Challenger are from ground pressure wise are just as mobile as their Soviet counterparts.

This is for example our Leopard 2's and Leopard 2RI.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610909058416148480

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The weight becomes a problem when you put bridges into picture. Apparently, many bridges in Ukraine would not be able to support tanks weighing 60 to 70 tons. A few months ago a US Army general pointed that as a majority drawback for Abrams tanks operating in Ukraine.

Stealthflanker said:

So what makes them unwilling or unable to take one from active stock and instead use that mothballed one to replace the previously donated Leopard's. ?

Or maybe the active inventory is already at standard that they were not willing to sacrifice ?




This kinda given tho... the effect would be Ukraine must train loader. which can be drawn from new recruits or reduce the size of their tank platoon, sacrificing a tank so 3 leopards or chally can have a loader.

and Weight is not really an issue i think, Leopards and Challenger are from ground pressure wise are just as mobile as their Soviet counterparts.

This is for example our Leopard 2's and Leopard 2RI.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610909058416148480

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It had never been about logistics and the tank being heavier. All the manufacturers of the tanks don't want to see their brand tarnished, which, as the sun is sure to rise from the East, will happen if these tanks are sent to the front. They wanted to sell their tanks to other countries. If you can watch lots of videos of these tanks being blown up just as easily as any other tank, then why would anyone buy them?

How is Ukraine able to restore power after the infra gets hit? I mean, attack on infra is pointless if a persistent-no-power stage is not achieved for a few weeks. They get daily power cuts, that's not such a big deal or am I missing something here

phrozenflame said:

How is Ukraine able to restore power after the infra gets hit? I mean, attack on infra is pointless if a persistent-no-power stage is not achieved for a few weeks. They get daily power cuts, that's not such a big deal or am I missing something here

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It's clearly a pain... all mechanical and industrial process that take time are bugged down with that kind of cuts.

A cut of 6 hours to a foundry, a chemical plants or a fermenter can take days to make it working again some time way more. Batches will need to be scrapped and sometimes machinery replace because of caulked conduits and heat spikes for example. Imagine a steel parts plant that produce ammo cast when the rolling press just stop mid course and the metal cool down....

All the time used to repair them cannot be used for something else.. all the weapon system and troops used to protect them cannot be sent to the front.

If you think about capturing them, making just enough damage to be a constant nuisance is sapping the workforce and parts logistic chains.