The Snowden Affair

jobjed said:

As for Snowden, he had a contract of trust with his employees and he broke that contract, as such, he is technically a traitor. .

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Jeff Head said:

Sorry, no.

He disobeyed orders...and there is probably some justifiable consequence for that.

But traitor? No, far from it.

To rise to that level he would have to be shown breaking his oath to the Constitution and trying, willingly, to do something destructive to that contract/document and the nation.

He has done precisely the opposite in that regard because there is no conceivable probable cause against each and every American citizen showing that they are going to commit crimes to utilize to obtain a warrant to engage in these data gathering activities against every American. None. And that probable cause is the standard required plainly by the US constitution for gathering anyone's personal effects and communications.

Actually, the people engaging in secretly gathering such information without probable cause are the ones violating their oaths, and this is exactly what Snowden has tried to reveal.

But now, it is not just Snowden, There are very highly placed former NSA employees (not just contractors) who have coming forward, including the former Director of Intelligence who had 6,000 NSA analysts working for him who have come forward revealing even more. Are they traitors?

No, not be a far stretch. They are whistle blowers and this administration and numerous politicians and appointees on both sides of the aisle hate them and are angered by what they are doing because their designs are being foiled.

Collecting data on known operatives, or terrorists and those we have probable cause on is perfectly fine...and should be done. Establishing this big fishing net on all Americans is not. The temptations are obvious and far too great to use such information for political purposes and corrupt purposes...which is exactly what has now happened in press cases and the IRS, and who knows how many other areas we have not been made aware of.

One thing is for sure...if they used this data against conservative organizations running up to last year's election (which we now know they did)...you can bet they used it elsewhere. It would be terrible to contemplate that such information was used against politicians or judges or others...but given some of the unbelievably abject turnarounds we have witnessed in people...it is sadly probably occurring.

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MwRYum said:

Now, the following leg of the flight will be an interesting one...it's hard to get a commercial flight to his destination without going through US airspace, so what'd stop the US from scrambling a flight of F-16s to escort the civilian jet down to a US base?

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jobjed said:

Two wrongs doesn't make a right. US spying is understandable, espionage is an inevitable part of international relations. The only wrong thing they're doing is acting like they're the victims even though they're probably the most active perpetrator in the world.

As for Snowden, he had a contract of trust with his employees and he broke that contract, as such, he is technically a traitor. You can debate all day whether or not he betrayed the US as a nation, but it is indisputable that he betrayed his employees.

And no China (and Russia) should not give Snowden asylum. Here is a man who risked his life to expose what he believed was wrong, namely; state surveillance and breach of privacy rights. What the hell do you think the CCP and the Putin administration is doing? The EXACT same thing, and on a larger scale. It would be extremely ironic and hypocritical for China and Russia to grant him asylum. But Russians are Russians, so I didn't expect any rational thought to be given to this matter. What the Russians are doing is a knee-jerk reaction to anything related to the US. They will act in any way possible to embarrass or troll the US regardless of any side effects.

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AssassinsMace said:

Fareed Zakaria is echoing the talking points which means the White House is probably promising him some interview in the future.

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AssassinsMace said:

Hillary is using the Arab Spring as a feather in her cap on foreign policy. When you have governments that turn out to be worse than the previous governments and especially against US interests, that's called a failure.

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advill said:

There is confusion about the term "spying" - it has been used too loosely. When any government "eaves-dropped" on citizens for "POLITICAL" purposes than it is absolutely damning, but if the security agency does it on terrorists and their allies, than it could be claimed as justifiable. However, there are various interpretations of "POLITICAL", as in Democratic countries this go against the very democratic principles they subscribed to; BUT where one-party State & autocratic countries are concerned, they are within the principles of their dictatorships and are carried out without any clear conscience. I am not going to elaborate on "spying" as this is clearly understood by most people. But of great concern is "Cyber-Security" & "Cyber-Attacks", the later being very aggressive and out to harm. The US had been "Cyber-Attacked" (including planting soft-wares-viruses by opponent/s that can disrupt the nation's communication, electrical grids etc. as and when required e.g. in War). This is a very dangerous situation that called for Obama to bring it out in the open recently. However, he is in a serious quandary as, because of the Snowden affair, he find difficulties in explaining to EU countries, his allies and others about NSA "eaves-dropping". Very sad and unfortunate situation - however "Let those who have not spied (sinned) cast the first stone!"

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