The Q-5, J-7, J-8 and older PLAAF aircraft

The J-8II can still toss around GPS directed glide bombs, which would make it a valuable strike platform to complement the JH-7As and various H-6 models. It also has the benefit of being faster than either one of the other aircraft.

When's the production line going to shut down?

Skywatcher said:

The J-8II can still toss around GPS directed glide bombs, which would make it a valuable strike platform to complement the JH-7As and various H-6 models. It also has the benefit of being faster than either one of the other aircraft.

When's the production line going to shut down?

Click to expand...

As far as I know, as of 2007, they've built about 120 J-8Fs starting in 2001, so thats about 20-30 and given Shenyang's slow but steady introduction of the J-11B and the rate of converting existing J-8Ds and J-8Bs I guess we can forseeably see a slow decline in production within the next several years with the lion share of Shenyangs production would logically fall to the J-11B but then again, its not like Shenyang has huge amounts of exports orders it needs to fill. I can see the J-8F serving for a while. It will certainly still be in production in some capacity after the J-7G/G2 retires

F40Racer said:

The original purpose of J-8 no longer applies to today's situations. Today's PLAAF no longer faces threats of supersonic bombers from two superpowers. J-8II is superior to J-8 in every aspect, but it still retain it's predecessor's characteristics: big, fast, high-flying, but not very manuverable, especially compared with newer fighers like Su-27. Even the older J-7 is more agile. As far as I know, after extensive upgrades the J-8II is approaching early 3rd generation fighters like F-14 in term of overall capabilities. I have read a Chinese article that talks about the J-8 program. It says that the J-8II faces a uncertain future. In some ways the J-8II is a low cost alternative to more expensive fighter aircrafts like J-10 and J-11. It is being considered a multi-role fighter instead of a interceptor, and is being used by both PLANAF and PLAAF due to its ground strike and maritime strike capabilities. But the plane is showing its age. It may not stand a chance against 3rd generation fighers, especially in dog fights.

Click to expand...

J-8 was originally designed to beat the pants off ROCAF's F-5E's, which did its job and spurred ROCAF to (attempt) acquire the F-20, then IDF.

I'm curious as to why the PRC never exported the J-8II? The A-5 and J-7's were both successful export products, but not hte J-8II.

F40Racer said:

The original purpose of J-8 no longer applies to today's situations. Today's PLAAF no longer faces threats of supersonic bombers from two superpowers. J-8II is superior to J-8 in every aspect, but it still retain it's predecessor's characteristics: big, fast, high-flying, but not very manuverable, especially compared with newer fighers like Su-27. Even the older J-7 is more agile. As far as I know, after extensive upgrades the J-8II is approaching early 3rd generation fighters like F-14 in term of overall capabilities. I have read a Chinese article that talks about the J-8 program. It says that the J-8II faces a uncertain future. In some ways the J-8II is a low cost alternative to more expensive fighter aircrafts like J-10 and J-11. It is being considered a multi-role fighter instead of a interceptor, and is being used by both PLANAF and PLAAF due to its ground strike and maritime strike capabilities. But the plane is showing its age. It may not stand a chance against 3rd generation fighers, especially in dog fights.

Click to expand...

J-8F can definitely score hits against IDF, F-16 and M2K. Look, it has pretty good T/W ratio, a 4th generation radar and the ability to fire PL-12.

I'm curious as to why the PRC never exported the J-8II? The A-5 and J-7's were both successful export products, but not hte J-8II.

Click to expand...

it was their top fighter for a long time and when they were ready to export it as F-8IIM, Iran wanted J-8F, which PLAAF wasn't willing to export.

Personally the PLAAF wont waste an airframe such as the J-8 just cause its outdated, it is evident that all existing J-8 platforms are being converted to J-8F standard. Though with that said once J-8 has stopped and it reaches its operational lifespan it still has its purposes its got incredible speed and altitude. It will be great for a recon aircraft, extremely cheap and reliable platform that PLAAF has plenty of. J-7 production has stopped all together so we can see a dramistic decline in the inventory of PLAAF. I dont see the PLAAF is wanting to fill the J-7 with another light fighter anymore, it would be a waste of budget to then be replaced within a decade. Anything lighter then the J-10 isn't good. Though that said anything heavier then the J-11 isnt either.

tphuang said:

it was their top fighter for a long time and when they were ready to export it as F-8IIM, Iran wanted J-8F, which PLAAF wasn't willing to export.

Click to expand...

I think J-8F is not top any more as they have J-10 and J-11. Any foreign customer?

I keep wondering why J-8s doesn't have the two features found on J-7s: one piece wind shield and double delta wings?

Let's face it, SAC/AVIC isn't making that much money on the J-8II, and I guess the plane's development has been gradually being squeezed on the military budget. The J-7 is still motivated by exports and its refining developments done in this decade are partially motivated by such. The J-8F is in a quandary, the desirable model, the J-8F isn't allowed for export, and no one is willing to take the F-8IIM or the J-8IIM, whose radar (Type 1471) is a generation behind that of the PLAAF (Type 1492).

The plane is a gas guzzler too. Its like selling a late sixties muscle car with modernized interior and amenities in an age when the barrel of oil is over 125 dollars. Compared to the J-7, its complicated, and its going to be beast in maintenance.

Why no double delta like the Su-15? Frankly despite what the Su-15 did, double delta is not good for an interceptor mission. It may improve maneuverability but at the expense of increase drag and reduced speed.

Note the J-7E/G added leading slats on the double delta wings, the only member in the Fishbed family to ever do so. Slats, a common fixture on many fighter aircraft, helps improve the lift efficiency of the wings, which improves handling, agility, lessens takeoff and landing speeds. But doing so, also increases drag and reduces speed. The "slatted" F-4E has better maneuverability over the non-slatted F-4B, but guess who was faster. One famous fighter aircraft in history was born with slats, but in later versions, went with "hard" wings as an upgrade. That was the F-86 Sabre. The J-8s all have "hard" wings. Fighters that emphasize speed, like the F-15 and MiG-25/31, all have hard wings, bucking the trend for slatted wings like the rest of the fighter crowd.

In fact its quite interesting to note that the JL-9/FTC-2000, which also featured double delta wings, abandoned the slats used by the J-7E/G.

Even with double delta, slatted wings, I don't believe the J-8II would impress anyone with its maneuverability skills. It faces other problems like the shape of the intakes that isn't optimized and angled for high angles of attack. The more you keep changing the J-8II, the more you end up with a new aircraft.

So a decision call has to be made not to morph its nature, keep its focus, and the plane must remain strictly a hit and run interceptor where its best at.

I think Crobato has given quite reasonable explain on why not to adopt double delta wings into J-8s. But you haven't explained why not a one piece wind shield which should enhance its visibility.

I think J-8 is a losing project with only about 300 samples of domestic sales of all variants. While some variants were funded by SAC and had no sale at all. Is Iran still interested in J-8F now? I think China should approve the sale. Why? The technology isn't anything advanced, so far as I know it use the same radar as FC-1. While FC-1 is there for export market, why not J-8F?

Hard to say why wouldn't they use a one piece windshield. The JH-7A is built much less than the J-8II and it has a one piece windshield.

I think a one-piece windshield could be installed in an upgrade. Look at IAI's MiG-21-2000:


And India's MiG-21-Bison:



If they can upgrade the windshield on the MiG-21, I don't see why they cannot do it on the J-8-II, unless if there's some structural reasons that we don't know about.