The military budget of China in 2007 financial year

optionsss said:

If you look at Japan's behavior, especially their government and its Prime minister recent comments.

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How does a dispute over comfort women require higher Chinese defence spending at the region of 17%+ a year?

Japan seems enjoy being hated by the rest of the east asian countries.

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China isn't regarded that much better in South Korea's eyes than Japan is - have a look at the poll I put up.

I have met nice Japanese people, but their governments behavior really troubles me.

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I'll ask again. How does disputes over the past require ever faster defence spending increases? It doesn't. No sane person can say it does.

Then why can't the Chinese military spending justified by the double digit increase in the economy.

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The economy is not increasing at 17.8% a year - is it?

Especially considering whether measured in absolute terms, proportion of gross national product, or proportion of fiscal outlays China's military spending is still low.

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If you use SIPRI's figures (which are the lowest international ones available), it is now higher than Japan's budget either in terms of $ value or proportion of GDP.

FuManChu said:

TP, I do not feel threatened one bit by China's spending. How can I - I live in Europe. But because I care about Asia as a whole, I am concerned China is running away too quickly over its spending and may cause repercussions in the region.

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So, clearly you know why China is increasing its defensive budget, but that you need to keep on asking this question to make China out to be the bad guy. Com'on we all know that's the case, why hide it? Just say that China is trying to become a world power and is increasing its military expenditure dramatically in doing so and scaring some neighbours at the same time. I wish politicians just have the guts to say that instead of keep on asking for stuff like "I'd like to know why China is increasing its military budget so much".

I think China does care about world opinion in some respects, otherwise it wouldn't try hide the real figure of its spending. If Chinese people generally welcome higher spending, that would be an incentive to say "we spend $50/60/70+ billion on defence". So why does the government hide the true extent of its spending if external, negative views are ignored and the internal ones are mostly positive?

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They don't hide their military expenditure. They have their own system of reporting and calculating how much they are spending on their military. Just because they don't use the same methodology to calculate their military spending, it doesn't mean they are hiding it. Now, if you say that the person (Chairman Mao) that decided what expenditure is military and non-military was trying to hide military spending, then that's correct. But the current regime is just continuing the old method of calculating military expenditure. And don't use the 3 times figure here, that was calculated using PPP.

FuManChu said:

I think you're clutching at straws. You originally made the assertion that "the West" sees China as a peaceful country. I used the only data available on global opinions of China to back my point up. What have you done? Just whinged that the questions are not fair. Where's your evidence - as the person trying to establish a fact you should be providing information and allowing others to poke holes in it. Saying "you prove I'm wrong" doesn't cut any ice.

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I'm not trying to prove anything. I simply said that the people I know think of China as a peaceful country, and that's the best data I have available on which to draw conclusions.

What you provided isn't better data. It's not that the questions aren't fair, they're simply not relevant at all, in that they don't ask about whether or not China is perceived as a peaceful country or not.

The survey you mentioned asked about whether or not China is a positive influence in the world. I'm very much aware that people have become concerned about losing jobs to the Chinese over the last few years. In light of what my own experience, this is the most straightforward explanation for your survey.

If you have any better data then I'm open to it. My friends are pretty multi-cultural and most of them have visited China at some point. I'm prepared to believe that the average Joe in Finland or Canada thinks China is "belligerent". But not without some sort of evidence.

... Ami.

How does a dispute over comfort women require higher Chinese defence spending at the region of 17%+ a year?

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I am just explaining to you why some of "ultra-nationalist trolls" would want to use it to justify the increase in military spending. To take over Japan, so disputed like this wouldn't happen again. Not that I agree, but the thinking is there and Japanese government is feuling it.

it is now higher than Japan's budget either in terms of $ value or proportion of GDP.

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Just look at the size difference between China and Japan. No sane person can ask Chinese military spending less than or equal to Japan's.

tphuang said:

So, clearly you know why China is increasing its defensive budget, but that you need to keep on asking this question to make China out to be the bad guy. Com'on we all know that's the case, why hide it?

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TP, you frequently take swipes at me. Why are you so unhappy with me expressing my opinion that you need to make nasty implications about me? Do I accuse you of having an agenda or anything negative of the like?

It's obvious why China is increasing the defence budget at all. But I have still not heard a credible answer as to why the rate of increase seems to be constantly accelerating. What's the rush - does the "shop" close in a few years time?

They don't hide their military expenditure. They have their own system of reporting and calculating how much they are spending on their military. Just because they don't use the same methodology to calculate their military spending, it doesn't mean they are hiding it.

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Then why aren't the public auditors allowed to see the books?

And don't use the 3 times figure here, that was calculated using PPP.

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What are you blithering about? I have never used the x3 numbers.

AmiGanguli said:

I'm not trying to prove anything. I simply said that the people I know think of China as a peaceful country, and that's the best data I have available on which to draw conclusions.

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What one's friends think is maybe the least objective indicator you can possibly use for very obvious reasons. I never, ever believe what my friends say is reflective of wider opinion just because they say it. You can believe what you want, but if you're not willing to provide any hard data then I will dispute your belief - though of course you are welcome to it.

optionsss said:

I am just explaining to you why some of "ultra-nationalist trolls" would want to use it to justify the increase in military spending.

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Well they're not in the Chinese government, so what those prats think isn't really terribly relevant.

Just look at the size different between China and Japan. No sane person can ask China's military less than or equal to Japan.

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I never said that, I just said that if one uses the "economic justification" as you did then it doesn't quite work.

FuManChu said:

What one's friends think is maybe the least objective indicator you can possibly use for very obvious reasons. You can believe what you want, but if you're not willing to provide any hard data then I won't believe you.

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I never claimed it's objective. Remember it was you who originally asserted that "the West" thinks China is "belligerent". I responded that this wasn't my experience.

You and Schumacher tried to provide evidence on both sides, but neither of these turned out to be relevant.

So we're back at square one. My own personal (unscientific) experience tells me that China is perceived as a peaceful country. I haven't found any evidence to contradict this, and you haven't produced any. You can say that your own personal experience is different, and I accept that, but your evidence isn't any better than mine.

... Ami.

AmiGanguli said:

Remember it was you who originally asserted that "the West" thinks China is "belligerent". I responded that this wasn't my experience.

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Ok, there seems to be some confusion on my part. I thought in post #12 you were saying that China is seen as being a peaceful country - upon revisiting it one could argue you were actually only saying it is (i.e. in your opinion) peaceful. If you meant the former, sorry for getting on your case about it.

Just want to be clear on one thing.

From AFP:
"Jiang, the Chinese spokesman, said the military expenditure would account for 7.5 percent of total government expenditure in 2007, compared with 7.4 percent in 2006."

That is only a .1 percent increase. The percent spending to the Chinese government is about the same. Therefore (in my understanding) that if the economical growth is slowed, then the military spending will slow too. Which is not a bad way to run government...

Of course that is assuming you believe anything the Chinese government says in public.... I do in this case.

Just my 0.02

Its possible the PRC hides its military spending figures. But the most likely scenario is misunderstanding as to how far the RMB goes in China as opposed to outside the country. Japanese military spending jumped from 6th largest in the world to 2nd largest in the world overnight due the Plaza accords. Its military spending overtook the Soviet Union for the first time in its history, increasing by more than a 100 percent. But its mostly due to currency gains rather than any inventory or budget increases. The Japanese didnt really increase their military budget, the currency exchange simply made it look that way. The Soviets were still outspending the Japanese by a large margin.

This was the second time this had occurred. The first time the military budget jumped 100 percent overnight was back in 1970s when the US unpegged from the gold standard causing the Yen to float.

The increase in China's military budget is a welcome. It stagnated or fell a few decades ago and is now making a strong return.