The Mali situation

delft said:

The forces will be back from Mali by Christmas, we just don't know in what year.

I hope the moderators will collect the postings already made and divided over several threads ( France, Army ) in this thread.

I just listened to a commentary by an experienced Dutch journalist on the radio station BNR ( formerly Business News Radio ) in which he condemned the intervention in Mali. He reminded us that a large part of the insurgents had been trained by the US to combat insurgents in West Africa and who now went over to the other side ( an own goal ). They are now very well armed and equipped due to the destruction of Libya ( another own goal ).

I'm sure Russia and China are happy to allow this war against the Islam in West Africa ( how do you convince the Muslims living there it is no such thing ? ) as the costs to Western countries in treasure and attention ( that should be directed to rebuilding the economy ) will give them valuable advantages.

Click to expand...

navyreco said:

For once I go on a long weekend with my wife with no laptop, no cell phone service etc... and this happens and I hear about it Sunday evening on my way back...

Anyways, here are a few points from my observation, contacts and information gathering:

- The decision was made to "move in" because the Jihadist were getting awfully close to the capital Bamako, with the risk of losing the entire country (plus security concerns for the several thousands French citizens living there)

- The loss of a pilot and two Gazelle from 4e régiment d'hélicoptères des forces spéciales ( 4e RHFS = equivalent to the 160th SOAR) came as a shock to the French Military while Gazelles were used in Libya with success while it was potentially a far more hostile environment. The difference is the operation in Mali was conduct during daylight. It indicates that initial combat were pretty intense and that the (political) decision to go ahead was a bit rushed. It also proves that Gazelle replacements are long over due and the Military is currently busy rushing Tigre helicopters to the area... with assistance from UK (C-17) and US (initial talks of C5). This proves again the lack of such means in the French Air Force, the limitations (and age?) of C160, and the urgent need for the A400M. Anyhow French Forces had to do with what was available in the area: The Gazelles, 4 Mirage 2000D and 1 Mirage F1CR (recon, but daylight ops only) in nearby Chad as well as two C-135FR.

Since the early stages

- a raid from France was conducted consisting of 4 Rafales (3x B and 1x C) and 2 more Tankers:

They then landed in Chad.

- France is rushing several troops (mostly FFL and Troupes de Marine) from other bases in Africa but also from France which indicates ground combat will likely happen at a later stage, and the conflict may last longer than a few days/weeks

- ISR is provided by ATL2 (yes, the French Navy MPA!) from the base in Senegal. This again shows the stricking lack of UAVs in France. US already offered UAV/Intelligence support.

- French Government is a bit bothered now that in the media, they took the head role of the operation while the plan really was to let African Union armies take that role and France would take a supporting role.

- French defense minister already hinted that French Military will be involved for the a long time in this theater

- Jihadi fighters today attacked the city of Diabali, located about 400 km north of Bamako, in an area under the control of the Malian authorities : Malian troops don't control anything and the area is very vast: That is why troops are being sent to conduct operations on the ground. The Jihadi will probably try to hide among the civilian population.

- Personal observation:
USAF should provide MC-130J Commando II as they can refuel and conduct intelligence mission at the same time.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Plus the French and US trained a lot in the past in Djibouti with KC-130/Mirage

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

navyreco said:

A Look at What Countries Are Contributing to Mali
FRANCE

France's resources in what they call Operation Serval include:

— 800 troops are now in place in Mali. This number is forecast to "gradually" increase to 2,500, according to a government official, who insisted on anonymity because he wasn't authorized to speak to the press.

—French forces on the ground include 200 troops from Operation Epervier in Chad who have been flown into Bamako. This includes some French Foreign Legionnaires. And a company of the 2nd marine infantry regiment based in Auvours, France was moved into Bamako on Saturday. Also present are a group of 200 soldiers who moved into Mali on Monday from their base in Ivory Coast, along with around 60 armored vehicles.

—Gazelle helicopter gunships from the 4th helicopter regiment of the special forces armed with HOT anti-tank missiles and 20mm cannons. The 4th regiment, based in Pau, France, has 12 of these helicopters.
— Mirage 2000D fighter jets based in Chad and four Rafale fighter jets sent from their base in France have taken part in the bombing campaign, supported by two C135 refueling tankers. Two Mirage F1 CR reconnaissance jets were also moved from their base in Chad to Bamako on Monday. France has six Mirage 2000D, 3 C135s, one C130, 1 Transall C160 stationed in Chad as part of its Operation Epervier.

———

U.K.

—Two C-17 aircraft to carry foreign troops and military equipment to Mali. One C-17 has arrived in Bamako, Mali and the second is currently in France.

—Britain is not offering any troops, but Mark Simmonds, the government minister for Africa, said British personnel also could be involved in training the Malian army.

— The only military personnel will be a Royal Air Force ground crew intended to service C-17 transport.

———

United States: The U.S. is providing intelligence-gathering assistance to the French, and officials would not rule out having American aircraft land in the West African nation as part of future efforts to lend airlift and logistical support. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said Tuesday that the U.S. is still working through the details of assistance it will provide France.

———

EU: The European Union says it is speeding up its preparation for a troop training mission in Mali, which will now likely be launched in the second half of February or early March, but the EU is not planning any direct combat role.

———

ALGERIA: Algerian Foreign Ministry spokesman Amar Belani said on Monday that Algeria was closing the nearly 1,000-kilometer (600-mile) border with Mali. After months of expressing grave doubts over any intervention in Mali, regional powerhouse Algeria has backed the French attack. It has granted overflight rights to French jets heading to northern Mali.

———

BENIN: Will send 300 troops.

———

BELGIUM: Transport.

———

BURKINA FASO: Will send 500 troops to Mali and 500 others to control the northern border. Check points have also been set up in Burkina Faso on roads to it northern border with Mali.

———

CHAD: To send troops, but no specific number yet.

———

DENMARK: Denmark is sending a C-130 transport aircraft with a crew and support staff of about 40 people, the Danish Foreign Ministry said.

———

ESTONIA: Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Paet said his country would be ready to send "a couple of officers" to Mail to help staff the EU's training mission.

———

GERMANY : German officials have ruled out sending any combat troops to support Mali, but French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said Germany will offer logistical, humanitarian and medical support.

———

GUINEA: Will send 144 troops.

———

MAURITANIA: Mauritanian armed forces were placed on high alert along the border with Mali. The president says the country would not take part in the fighting in northern Mali. The Mauritanian army had conducted raids in 2010 and 2011 against the bases of al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb in northern Mali.

———

NIGER: Will send 500 troops.

———

NIGERIA: Will send about 900 troops, including a company of 190 expected to leave in the next 24 hours.

———

SENEGAL: Will send 500 troops.

———

TOGO: Will send 500 troops.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

A French elite Special Operations soldier drive through the town of Markala, about 275 km (171 miles) from the capital Bamako, January 15, 2013, to meet Malian soldiers and organize a counter-attack in the jihadist-held town of Diabaly. France will end its intervention in Mali only once stability has returned to the West African country, French President Francois Hollande said on Tuesday, raising the prospects of a costly, drawn-out operation against al Qaeda-linked rebels. *******/Francois Rihouay

Click to expand...

A detachment of the French army will "secure" a strategic bridge on the River Niger in Markala (Western Mali) to prevent access to the armed Islamists. This bridge leads to the capital Bamako,

"The mission entrusted to us is to keep the bridge in order to deny the enemy access to the South," he told AFP Colonel Frederick (his first name) of the 21st RIMA (Regiment Marine Infantry ) came from Chad. "We will put in place a mechanism to secure the area," he added.

Click to expand...

Forty-one Westerners, including 7 Americans were taken hostage today on a gas site east of Algeria, said a spokesman for the Islamist group that has abducted two city sites information Mauritania, Nouakchott information Agency and Sahara Media.

Click to expand...

solarz said:

I have to disagree with your claim that this intervention is a war against Islam. 90% of the population in Mali is muslim. This is not a fight between the West and Islam, it's a fight between Islamic extremists and Islamic moderates, and the moderates called on French help because they're getting their asses kicked.

However, it's interesting to note that this war would never have happened in the first place if Gaddafi had not been deposed. So in a sense, France is reaping what they sowed.

Click to expand...

Franklin said:

It's all a matter of perception. You can say that this is not a "war against Islam" and i agree with you that is most likely not. However if you're sitting in the Islamic world then you may see things differently. This is just another in a long list of Muslim nations that has been attacked by either America or one of her allies. There has been a 8 year war against Iraq, 11 year war against Afghanistan, drones have been bombing Pakistan since 2004, drones are bombing Yemen, there is a intervention in Somalia led by the US, in 2011 we had the bombing on Libya, there are sanctions against Iran, more than 40 years of occupation of the Palestinians by the Israeli's, the multiple attacks by Israel into Lebanon and now the intervention in Mali and the list goes on. If you're sitting in the Muslim world then you may interpret all these things differently then when you're sitting in the West.

And you can also asked the question why are Muslim nations being punished for things that other nations can get away with ? Why is it O.K. for India and Israel and not to mention North Korea to have nuclear weapons but not Iran ? Why is Sudan being condemned for Darfur but not Rwanda for their atrocities in the eastern Congo ? These are questions that a lot of the people in the Muslim world are asking today.

Doesn't a lot of the membership here feel that the West has been hostile towards China ? Well, in the case with China there are no targeted assassinations, invasions, occupations, bombings, entire families being shot at checkpoints, men being raped etc. How do you think the Arabs and Muslims around the world feel about these things ?

Click to expand...