While it is possible to be another India fuck ups, the recording is not verifiable if we're to apply the same standard of BS filter to Pakistan
The Kashmir conflict 2025.
- Thread starter ohan_qwe
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While it is possible to be another India fuck ups, the recording is not verifiable if we're to apply the same standard of BS filter to Pakistan
Unless they were broadcasting on open channels...
For the three Rafales claimed by Pakistan, there are actually only one Mirage and one Rafale, and one cannot be confirmed. I can only think of three branches:
1. The third "Rafale" was not shot down. Excessive claims of results are basically accompanied by air force history. After all, it is difficult for the victorious party to confirm the results. It may be just injured, or a bold Indian pilot flew at an ultra-low altitude in the mountains and escaped from the missile. That's the same "plane disappeared into the mountains"
2. The third "Rafale" is not a Rafale, but a fighter.
2.1 It was misreported like the Mirage 2000.
2.2 Why can't we see the information of the wreckage? The mountainous Kashmir region hinders the spread of finding information. The locals did not find the wreckage of the fighter and upload it to the Internet before the Indian official obviously strengthened the news control in the past two days
3. The third "Rafale" is a Rafale, and then we go back to 2.2
1. The third "Rafale" was not shot down. Excessive claims of results are basically accompanied by air force history. After all, it is difficult for the victorious party to confirm the results. It may be just injured, or a bold Indian pilot flew at an ultra-low altitude in the mountains and escaped from the missile. That's the same "plane disappeared into the mountains"
2. The third "Rafale" is not a Rafale, but a fighter.
2.1 It was misreported like the Mirage 2000.
2.2 Why can't we see the information of the wreckage? The mountainous Kashmir region hinders the spread of finding information. The locals did not find the wreckage of the fighter and upload it to the Internet before the Indian official obviously strengthened the news control in the past two days
3. The third "Rafale" is a Rafale, and then we go back to 2.2
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Has the Indian government even said anything about the air battle? Seems like it’s mostly been Indian media making up BS. In the Indian debrief I remember they explicitly ignored aid to air combat. They’ve been very oddly quiet
Financial Times praises the J-10C and PL-15 for shooting down the French Rafale, in what they suspect was effective coordination with AEW to score a BVR kill at over 100km distance:
“
Defence attachés from China’s western rivals were waiting “impatiently”, said one in New Delhi, for India to share the radar and electronic signatures of the J-10C while in combat mode so that their own aerial defences could be trained on it.
Similarly for China, this skirmish was a test not just of the aircraft but the sophisticated radar system — called an active electronically scanned array — mounted in the front of the plane. The combat tested its ability to not just hunt out threats but help guide the missiles.
Aurangzeb Ahmed, Pakistan’s deputy chief of air operations, said PL-15 variants were among the missiles used in the skirmish this week. The hour-long engagement would be “studied in the classroom”, bragged Ahmed. “We knocked some sense into these guys.”
, a researcher at the Royal United Services Institute in London, said the use of PL-15E missile could be “highly significant”. Indian media reported that an intact PL-15 had been recovered, providing a chance to study its secrets.
“If confirmed, we have now seen the demonstration of a Chinese-made AESA on a beyond-visual-range-missile, used in combat,” he said.”
“
Only in March this year did India issue an “acceptance of necessity” notice to triple India’s fleet of such early warning aircraft to 18. Their deployment is years away.
“If these tit-for-tat aerial retaliations continue for much longer, India will feel their absence sorely,” said a second western defence attaché based in New Delhi.
“If it turns out that India lost a French jet to a Chinese missile fired from over 100km away, then that need is clearly urgent.”
At the same time, they pointed out that the performance of HQ-9 was possibly not up to par, as Pakistani GBAD proved itself incapable of intercepting French SCALP missiles which appear to have inflicted significant damage on Pakistani GBAD:
“
On the other side of the ledger, the success of Indian missiles — many of them reportedly long-range French SCALP missiles — in finding their targets showed both the weakness and paucity of Pakistani aerial defences.
Pakistan is known to deploy China’s HQ-9 systems, which are a generation behind the sophistication of Russian S-400s and are at the top-end of India’s inventory.
“The fact is that even at a time of extreme high alert, Indian missiles penetrated Pakistani airspace without being detected,” said Laxman Kumar Behera, who specialises on India’s national security at Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi.
India’s retaliation on Thursday targeted Pakistan’s “air defence radars and systems at a number of locations in Pakistan”, according to the Indian military.
“That’s a very precise display of a very high-end capability — taking out the defences, rather than an actual target,” said a senior western diplomat based in Delhi. “It’s a carefully calibrated warning — it says, look, if we can come take the lock off your door, then we can come into the house whenever we want.”
“
Defence attachés from China’s western rivals were waiting “impatiently”, said one in New Delhi, for India to share the radar and electronic signatures of the J-10C while in combat mode so that their own aerial defences could be trained on it.
Similarly for China, this skirmish was a test not just of the aircraft but the sophisticated radar system — called an active electronically scanned array — mounted in the front of the plane. The combat tested its ability to not just hunt out threats but help guide the missiles.
Aurangzeb Ahmed, Pakistan’s deputy chief of air operations, said PL-15 variants were among the missiles used in the skirmish this week. The hour-long engagement would be “studied in the classroom”, bragged Ahmed. “We knocked some sense into these guys.”
, a researcher at the Royal United Services Institute in London, said the use of PL-15E missile could be “highly significant”. Indian media reported that an intact PL-15 had been recovered, providing a chance to study its secrets.
“If confirmed, we have now seen the demonstration of a Chinese-made AESA on a beyond-visual-range-missile, used in combat,” he said.”
“
Only in March this year did India issue an “acceptance of necessity” notice to triple India’s fleet of such early warning aircraft to 18. Their deployment is years away.
“If these tit-for-tat aerial retaliations continue for much longer, India will feel their absence sorely,” said a second western defence attaché based in New Delhi.
“If it turns out that India lost a French jet to a Chinese missile fired from over 100km away, then that need is clearly urgent.”
At the same time, they pointed out that the performance of HQ-9 was possibly not up to par, as Pakistani GBAD proved itself incapable of intercepting French SCALP missiles which appear to have inflicted significant damage on Pakistani GBAD:
“
On the other side of the ledger, the success of Indian missiles — many of them reportedly long-range French SCALP missiles — in finding their targets showed both the weakness and paucity of Pakistani aerial defences.
Pakistan is known to deploy China’s HQ-9 systems, which are a generation behind the sophistication of Russian S-400s and are at the top-end of India’s inventory.
“The fact is that even at a time of extreme high alert, Indian missiles penetrated Pakistani airspace without being detected,” said Laxman Kumar Behera, who specialises on India’s national security at Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi.
India’s retaliation on Thursday targeted Pakistan’s “air defence radars and systems at a number of locations in Pakistan”, according to the Indian military.
“That’s a very precise display of a very high-end capability — taking out the defences, rather than an actual target,” said a senior western diplomat based in Delhi. “It’s a carefully calibrated warning — it says, look, if we can come take the lock off your door, then we can come into the house whenever we want.”
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And a question on the numbers mentioned in the PAF brief, do they say that 60 IAF aircraft were involved in the strike and then additional scrambles got that number to 72 (so 12 extra aircraft), or that the additional scrambles COMPRISED 72 extra aircraft, making the IAF total 132?
smells like they've been smoking a lot of Copium.
Still same problem - lack of substantive evidence of hitting Pakistani air defenses. I don't think Pakistanis have that much discipline not to upload pictures or videos. Indians side also did not relase any reliable drone or satellite footage.
Wow. Pakistan gave very precise coordinates on the 3 Rafales, the MKI and MiG-29:
They are absolutely certain of these things.
(Looks like Gozilla-4 of Rafale formation ate a PL-15)
They are absolutely certain of these things.
(Looks like Gozilla-4 of Rafale formation ate a PL-15)
India even stated they did not hit any Pakistani military installation or anything in relation to it.
On top of that, Pakistani GBAD is not as multi layered as the likes of Russia or Israel. It’s definitely lethal against aircraft and the fact that IAF did not even want to fly into Pakistan’s airspace means it did its job. Intercepting stealth missiles or supersonic ones was not the primary task.
On top of that, Pakistani GBAD is not as multi layered as the likes of Russia or Israel. It’s definitely lethal against aircraft and the fact that IAF did not even want to fly into Pakistan’s airspace means it did its job. Intercepting stealth missiles or supersonic ones was not the primary task.
A lot could be inferred from IAF action going forward. If they continue avoid using manned assets then it does corroborate PAF’s story.