The Kashmir conflict 2025.

defenceman

Junior Member
Registered Member
One or two more batteries of HQ-9 definitely won’t hurt though. But agreed that long range missiles and drones cause very limited damage (unless targeting a large ammo dump, which didn’t happen in this conflict)
Hi,
one can have couple or more batteries im sure that won’t cost to much for Pakistan,
but one more scenario none should consider is the air or land miles between india
& Pakistan it’s just a crow flight from Delhi to Lahore, so practically to stop volleys of
missiles back and forth on top drones so not totally stoppable, in coming days we might
be able to see the outcome of Pakistan using too much Electronic jamming to bring these
missiles as practically it’s not even possible for Russia to stop Ukrainian attack all out though
they are like 400/500 miles away from Russian territory
thank you
 

tristle23a

Just Hatched
Registered Member
When you look at history of past world wars and european wars between great powers, you will understand the lengths Greats Powers can go to preserve their dominance. Its actually naive to think US will only bring a certain percentage of its force to a fight against China. If US and China fights, it will be world war 3.

That means US will try to use every single leverage it has anywhere to try to bring China down. So, not just active force US has, I expect US to bring back retired F-15, F-16 whatever planes US has in its boneyard.

I expect US to force its European allies to fight as well and I expect some fanatic countries like Poland and UK to join for sure. The ones that dont join, I atleast I expect US to bring all the F-35s, F-16s whatever they have in their arsenal and supply to US.

US for example forced Pakistan to supply artillery to Ukraine. So, in a world war 3 which is much more existential, US might ask Saudis to supply F-15 to US to make up losses.

We need to understand the comprehensive hold US and the western empire has on the world. Every country dependent on US for buying arms or protection is a vassal and US will use that influence during the war against China.

Can China's reserve of older J-7, J-6 compare against 3000 F-15/F-16 coming back from retirement or supplied by its vassals? US has much bigger pool of retired fighter jet pilots than China. So, they can rapidly expand their air force with retired pilots.

Yes, China has more manufacturing capacity now. But US has comprehensive dominance on many countries and it will use that dominance to bring in more supplies and forces. China may not be able to match that reserve force with manufacturing new planes alone.

China is still too weak against US and it comprehensive empire.


Too many people forget at the start of WW2, Japan had both the larger, stronger and more experienced navy than the US. But during the course was the US leveraged its gigantic industrial capacity to overwhelm the Japs, the Japs couldn't keep up and by war's end they were massively outnumbered by the US.

Since then the tables have turned. The US over over the last 30 years has deindustrialised. Trump wants to move manufacturing back to the US, but it's not as simple as he likes, because the US workforce has shifted from manufacturing to the white collar services sector. Moving manufacturing back to the US will mean Jim working his cushy office job in NYC will have to give up his job and go work in a sweatshop and get paid less.

The US MIC is now a highly privatised, profit driven industry where super high end, high tech machines are favoured over simple munitions like artillery shells. Their factories operate on a profit driven principle, where excess capacity is considered wasteful. Their doctrine anticipated the decline of industrial warfare in favour of precise strikes using high end equipmen. The Ukraine war has proven that is absolutely not the case, and as a consequence, the US can't keep up its production of shells or HIMARS missiles for even Ukraine.

By contrast, the Russian MIC is state operated, and their factories are built with plenty of spare capacity on standby so they can massively ramp up production when war comes, and it's paying off in Ukraine now. AFAIK The Russians are outproducing the US in artillery shells.

If Russia is able to outproduce the US, what about China, the world's pre eminent industrial juggernaut which produces everything for the world? The roles have flipped. The US which was the industrial powerhouse at WW2 has now deindustrialised, China has now taken its place. In a way China is now in the position of the 1930s US.

If a war breaks out I predict the US will have the initial advantage because of its stronger military. But if the war drags on, then China's gigantic industrial capacity and population will come into play, and as long as it survives the initial blow, it'll be in a good position to outproduce and overhwhelm the US.

The US navy was weaker than Japan at the start of WW2, but much stronger by the end. China's in a position to do the same to the US with its industrial base as long as its supply chains are secure.
 
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TheFuture_NoMore

New Member
Registered Member
Any confirmation on the AWACS being hit at Bholari?

No PAF AWACS/AEW&C was hit or damaged. We would have heard about it from the India AF/MOD by now if it had been. No one anywhere has said this except for this poorly informed person who has said a few factually incorrect things in his commentary.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Any references to hpeful "damaged" Erieye should be forgotten about. It is incorrect/false ..
 
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4Runner

Senior Member
Registered Member
If the kill-chain was simply J-10C AESA detecting, locking, firing, and guiding PL-15E toward Rafale ~180KM away and made the kills, then the west could just surrender right now. BTW, that kill-chain was an export version and produced 10 years ago. Hypothetically from today's export menu, J-10C + KJ-500 and its GX siblings + HQ-9BE (300KM/30KM), there would be only one competing system existing today: an F-35 kill-chain. Could I throw in an J-16DE in the mix?
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
If the kill-chain was simply J-10C AESA detecting, locking, firing, and guiding PL-15E toward Rafale ~180KM away and made the kills, then the west could just surrender right now. BTW, that kill-chain was an export version and produced 10 years ago. Hypothetically from today's export menu, J-10C + KJ-500 and its GX siblings + HQ-9BE (300KM/30KM), there would be only one competing system existing today: an F-35 kill-chain. Could I throw in an J-16DE in the mix?
Worth every penny on the PLAAF doctrine and the trainings received by PAF

 
Hi, but still better from the radar of MKI, and probably only su35 radar can guide
R37M all the way
thank you
Yes, that is true. However, since the PLAAF operates a small batch of Su-35, the PLAAF is very familiar with the radar. Initially the PLAAF exercised frequently with the Su-35s, but concluded that its radar was prone to jamming by the J-10C/J-16 and found the Su-35 ineffective at operating in the heavily contested EM environment that PLAAF fighters were expected to operate in.

India would be better off funding its indigenous AESA development efforts and focusing on bringing the Uttam into production. Uttam + Astra Mk2 on MKI should prove to be a fairly capable and modern combo. Add in some networking/CEC, and India might end up with something close to a poor man's J-16.

The lesson that India should have learnt from the recent clash is that it needs to stop wasting money on foreign platforms and focus on building indigenous systems.
 
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TK3600

Major
Registered Member
I don't buy that.

1. It's insanely stupid to think you can use your air force to attack another country also with an air force and assume you won't be engaged by that air force. This doesn't even count as an ambush just like you can't ambush someone by swinging back in a fight they just started; this is natural expected self-defense against attack.

2. Nobody brings 70+ jets to bomb terrorist camps. When you bring a WWII-sized air wing, you're expecting huge trouble.

3. The sister of a dead Rafale pilot said that her brother's last text to her was that he was going to "teach the Pakis a lesson." He knew this fight was to involve a lot more than some terrorist camps.
I can honestly believe it. This is India we are talking about. What likely happened was India believe it was a show of force on low value non-military target. Maybe Pakistan will do something similar back, and that will be it.

Their fighter radar was jammed on their way to strike. Instead of following caution, they just hoped there was no fighters nearby, not like they can see anything anyways. So they dumped the missile and went back to base. Turns out 200km further a salvo of PL-15 was launched entirely undetected, and they all died near their base on return trip.
 

crazyinsane105

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Every day, as the news or propaganda keep coming, I feel Pakistan did a useless attack on Bunyan Ul Marsoos. Where are Satellite photos of attacked bases? India is posting them but Pakistan is not.
Pakistan doesnt have its own satellites, hence they may
Yes, that is true. However, since the PLAAF operates a small batch of Su-35, the PLAAF is very familiar with the radar. Initially the PLAAF exercised frequently with the Su-35s, but concluded that its radar was prone to jamming by the J-10C/J-16 and found the Su-35 ineffective at operating in the heavily contested EM environment that PLAAF fighters were expected to operate in.

India would be better off funding its indigenous AESA development efforts and focusing on bringing the Uttam into production. Uttam + Astra Mk2 on MKI should prove to be a fairly capable and modern combo. Add in some networking/CEC, and India might end up with something close to a poor man's J-16.

The lesson that India should have learnt from the recent clash is that it needs to stop wasting money on foreign platforms and focus on building indigenous systems.
India’s most successful weapons programs have been done with significant help from Russia. Way too much vaporware from DRDO that ends up nowhere. They are better off pairing with Russia or France, but at this point, they will be outgunned by Chinese stealth aircraft in a year or two.
 
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