The Kashmir conflict 2025.

Gloire_bb

Major
Registered Member
How? Russian have yet to demonstrate the capability to produce radars and EW systems that are on par with what the Rafale has.
1, su-57 is operational
2, rafale F4 is mash of 1990s and 2000s solutions, it isn't exactly that high a bar in 2025;
3, su-30sm2 with bars AESA is also operational. Just a bigger, 10 years later plane compared to J-10c/Rafale F3r etc
The idea of fast tracking acquisition of latest Russian weapons in response to western gear getting smocked by Chinese tech is especially funny considering what Xi is doing right now.
Well, India is a traditional Russian friend, too. If not for current situation, Modi also would've been in Moscow.
 

Randomuser

Senior Member
Registered Member
I'm probably gonna get perma banned after this violation, but could not resist.

This little article explains how badly fkd India is,
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TL;DR
India doesn't have Rafale and M2K source codes, hence cannot equip Indian systems and munitions on it. Dassault refuses to share. That also hints that all non-French systems are likely not integrated with the Rafale and M2K, such as the non-French ground radars, AWACS, SAM, etc.

I think this lack of integration issue was well-known, as pointed out earlier in the thread. In 2019, India's Israeli-made SPYDER SAM shot down IAF's Russian-made Mi-17 chopper in friendly fire.

__________
20m ago,
Drone shot down over Lahore
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May 7-8
Many telegram reports indicating something happened in Gujranwala, Pakistani Punjab (explosions on ground and air); later reports say Indian drone was intercepted
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Explosions heard in Amritsar (Indian town on the border near Lahore)
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Interceptors firing from Amritsar and Jalandhar (Indian Panjab)
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Person recording this crash at Bathinda says "somebody got shot AFTER they exited [the plane]; they're picking up people and carrying them away"
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May 6
A local Kashmiri in India posted this video and another preceding it on Twitter (probably already posted here). He says in the video: "missile was approaching this aircraft, it dispensed flares, got hit, explosion; unknown if Pakistan's or India's"
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Now that we know that it was probably Indian, we also know the flares did not work. His other video had captured the flares (but i lost the link).

This crash in Srinagar looks too big to be a fighter?
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View attachment 151526



Video is from a video game. An Indian asked Grok to verify. Grok replied that the footage is real. That should tell you everything about Grok's abilities.


IAF also has bases in Rajasthan along/near the Pakistani Punjab border. Bikaner AFS and Jaisalmer AFS are pretty big. Bikaner may have played a role in the strike on Bahawalpur.
View attachment 151525

Jammu looks get-able. It's trapped in a narrow space with mountains on one side of the town and Pakistan border on a flat land 15km away. Road to Jammu from india proper is along a narrow corridor as well, just 8km from the border to the mountains.
View attachment 151532

There is a serious massive water shortage in India. Not being talked about much but it has become as much an existential threat for them as it has been for Pakistan. And with China damming the Yarlung/Brahmaputra, the effect of the threat is exarcebated, along with India's heavily polluted water sources, exhausted aquifers and constant heatwaves.

Suspension of Indus River treaty was India's first step towards securing it's water resources. Next step is damming the Indus and diverting water to India. These developments will 100% lead to war (if they haven't already). In that situation, Pakistan will have to lead the war.


Sensationalist nonsense. The first paragraph said it all: dog fight at 160km. Wtf!
Thanks for the heads up for the PSA


Sucks for those Jai Hinds who rely on it assuming its the absolute truth.
 

Lethe

Captain
They've been talking about a "Super Sukhoi" for some time now, funding released last year if i recall correctly so it'll take a good part of a decade to build those subsystems.

IAF refusing to lean into the flanker more as a very upgradable platform is one of those things that I have never understood because PLAAF set the example for what to do with flankers early on.

A comprehensive Su-30MKI overhaul and upgrade program should've commenced immediately after production wrapped up at Nashik in 2021, using those same facilities and workforce, as the most cost-effective and immediate means of bolstering IAF combat airpower. That this did not occur (and has still not yet occurred) despite talk of a "Super 30" or "Super Sukhoi" program dating back to early 2010s suggests profound mismanagement, misallocation of resources and misapprehension of priorities, across multiple levels of leadership.
 
1, su-57 is operational
2, rafale F4 is mash of 1990s and 2000s solutions, it isn't exactly that high a bar in 2025;
3, su-30sm2 with bars AESA is also operational. Just a bigger, 10 years later plane compared to J-10c/Rafale F3r etc

Well, India is a traditional Russian friend, too. If not for current situation, Modi also would've been in Moscow.

Producing 50 or so Su-57 over 5+ years fails to meet the standard for mass production. Rafale may be 20 years old and not a high bar for first rate air powers, but Russia is at least 20+ years behind in radar, avionics, and electronics warfare. This is the first time I'm hearing of there being an AESA version of Bars in operational service, I was under the impression the Su-30SM2 used Snow Leopoard. At any rate, first generation Russian AESAs are not going to be competetive against current generation Chinese/US/European radars.
 
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lych470

Junior Member
Registered Member
They've been talking about a "Super Sukhoi" for some time now, funding released last year if i recall correctly so it'll take a good part of a decade to build those subsystems.

IAF refusing to lean into the flanker more as a very upgradable platform is one of those things that I have never understood because PLAAF set the example for what to do with flankers early on.

PLAAF also has AVIC as its industrial partner, with decades of experience developing and upgrading both foreign and domestic aircrafts. More importantly, China invested decades in developing its own indigenous turbofan engines, efforts that finally paid off in the production of WS-10 and WS-15 engines.

China can upgrade its flankers because she can produce her own engines and subsystems. India... not so much.

Edit - it came to my attention that HAL can locally produce AL-31s. My point still stands - you'd be eternally hobbled in your aviation industry if you can not develope your own engines.
 
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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
They've been talking about a "Super Sukhoi" for some time now, funding released last year if i recall correctly so it'll take a good part of a decade to build those subsystems.

IAF refusing to lean into the flanker more as a very upgradable platform is one of those things that I have never understood because PLAAF set the example for what to do with flankers early on.

J-16 has been in service for almost a decade now so…
 

SteelBird

Colonel
Is this the most official acknowledgement of the loss of Rafale?

Analysis: The fog of war hovers of Pakistan and India’s aerial clash​

From CNN's Brad Lendon
A day after India launched airstrikes on what it claimed were terrorist sites inside Pakistan and Pakistan-administered Kashmir, the fog of war still hangs over much of the battle.
Pakistan’s leaders are touting a great victory by the country’s air force, saying five Indian fighter jets were shot down during an hour-long battle fought at ranges over 160 kilometers (100 miles).
India’s leaders are saying little in response to those Pakistani claims, though they say their attacks successfully hit multiple intended “terrorist” targets and showed what they said was video evidence of many of those strikes.
India has not acknowledged any aircraft losses, and the Pakistanis have yet to show any evidence proving they downed fighter jets. But a French Defense Ministry source said at least one of India’s newest and most-advanced warplanes – a French-made Rafale fighter jet – was lost in the battle.
Military analysts are cautious, noting Pakistan’s claims have not been confirmed. But India is also not refuting them.

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