The Civil War in Libya

Baibar of Jalat

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
longer war went on the more more run down the European militaries will have been. All the defensive cuts in Europe benefit China by allowing them to catch up. For example excluding US dominated F 35, Europe is not actively developing a fifth gen fighter.

Less Europe spends on R&D the weaker Europe is. Now the war is coming to a close, I bet there will be less money to refurb used equipment, esp in the UK.
 
Semi-Lobster

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
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In short:

In an interview with Reuters, a spokeswomen from the Chinese Foreign Ministry says that there were talks between the Gaddafi government and 'several' state owned Chinese arms manufacturers of the sale of weapons to Libya in June but no weapons were sold and that the meetings in Beijing between the Gaddafi governments and the arms manufacturers happened behind the Chinese governments back and without their knowledge.
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
Semi-Lobster said:
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In short:

In an interview with Reuters, a spokeswomen from the Chinese Foreign Ministry says that there were talks between the Gaddafi government and 'several' state owned Chinese arms manufacturers of the sale of weapons to Libya in June but no weapons were sold and that the meetings in Beijing between the Gaddafi governments and the arms manufacturers happened behind the Chinese governments back and without their knowledge.
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I just read that today on Yahoo online news and it was interesting. I hope China doesn't have her Col. Oliver North moment, like in the 1980s.
 
K

kyanges

Junior Member
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"Libya’s new leaders said the country’s relations with China will suffer if they confirm a report that Chinese state companies offered to sell Muammar Qaddafi $200 million worth of arms in the midst of a rebellion.

“If indeed the Chinese government agreed to sell arms to Qaddafi only a month ago, definitely it will affect our relationship with China,” the National Transitional Council’s finance minister, Ali Al Tarhouni, told Al Jazeera television today. The outcome would be “not favorable,” he said. "


The rest of the article goes on to cover the negative perception of China among the NTC/rebel areas, and the like. Human rights and democracy is a useful banner indeed.
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
kyanges said:
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"Libya’s new leaders said the country’s relations with China will suffer if they confirm a report that Chinese state companies offered to sell Muammar Qaddafi $200 million worth of arms in the midst of a rebellion.

“If indeed the Chinese government agreed to sell arms to Qaddafi only a month ago, definitely it will affect our relationship with China,” the National Transitional Council’s finance minister, Ali Al Tarhouni, told Al Jazeera television today. The outcome would be “not favorable,” he said. "


The rest of the article goes on to cover the negative perception of China among the NTC/rebel areas, and the like. Human rights and democracy is a useful banner indeed.
Click to expand...

That's If the Chinese government did agreed to sell arms to Qaddafi. They were still talking, not dealing, there's a difference. At this time the world were not sure where the war was heading or who's "winning"in a way. In the mean time America, China, and other UN nation continue to give basic aids (food and medicine) to the rebels, but I haven't heard anything at all about the Qaddafi's supporter as of right now. Don't they need aids of some kind too or is it only the hardcore groups that are hold up in a handful of small hold outs left with ample supplies and munition?
 
M

montyp165

Senior Member
kyanges said:
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"Libya’s new leaders said the country’s relations with China will suffer if they confirm a report that Chinese state companies offered to sell Muammar Qaddafi $200 million worth of arms in the midst of a rebellion.

“If indeed the Chinese government agreed to sell arms to Qaddafi only a month ago, definitely it will affect our relationship with China,” the National Transitional Council’s finance minister, Ali Al Tarhouni, told Al Jazeera television today. The outcome would be “not favorable,” he said. "


The rest of the article goes on to cover the negative perception of China among the NTC/rebel areas, and the like. Human rights and democracy is a useful banner indeed.
Click to expand...


From the NYTimes:

Aref el-Nayed, a senior NTC official and director of a unit known as the Libyan Stabilisation Team, told Reuters on Monday that this would remain the policy:

"Free Libya is keen on great relations with all of humanity," he said. "Different countries had different attitudes towards the Gaddafi regime. The NTC will not be discriminatory because of this."

He added: "China is a very important member of the international community and we look forward to great relations with China and we look forward to great relations with Russia and all other countries. What is important is that all countries have now entered this consensus (supporting the NTC) and it is from this baseline that we will build our relations."

(Writing by Alastair Macdonald; editing by Myra MacDonald)
 
Baibar of Jalat

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
Nato merceneries the NTC can say what they want but they are indebted to France and Britain. China has lost out but will move on.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Equation said:
That's If the Chinese government did agreed to sell arms to Qaddafi. They were still talking, not dealing, there's a difference. At this time the world were not sure where the war was heading or who's "winning"in a way. In the mean time America, China, and other UN nation continue to give basic aids (food and medicine) to the rebels, but I haven't heard anything at all about the Qaddafi's supporter as of right now. Don't they need aids of some kind too or is it only the hardcore groups that are hold up in a handful of small hold outs left with ample supplies and munition?
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The west only ever have concerns about human rights when it suits them.

Regarding China even agreeing to sell arms, well since China endorse a UN arms embargo, even agreeing to supply arms would be pretty bad and probably illegal.

However I still maintain my serious doubts about the authenticity of the 'evidence', refer to my earlier post for details.

If Beijing knows that they did nothing of the sort and concluded that this is a deliberate smearing campaign, then it should devise some sort of retaliation even if they cannot prove who exactly did it to expose them to be world. Even if the claims are fake, they would have already done a lot of damage to China's image even if these claims prove to be utterly false, as you can bet hat the same media outlets give these claims so much column inches and air time will hardly give a peep if the claims don't check out. So the negative image of China will remain even if China did absolutely nothing wrong.

The likes of the CIA and MI5 needs to learn that their actions carry consequences or else this kind of BS will only happen more often in the future.
 
bladerunner

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Baibar of Jalat said:
All the defensive cuts in Europe benefit China by allowing them to catch up. For example excluding US dominated F 35, Europe is not actively developing a fifth gen fighter.
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Rather than waste their limited money on another 5th gen aircraft, by husbanding their financial resources they can concentrate on developing UCAV's and all supporting technology.
Theyre also learning from China mate, rather than getting sucked into a one for one situation, just come up with effective counters.
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bladerunner

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Equation said:
That's If the Chinese government did agreed to sell arms to Qaddafi. They were still talking, not dealing, there's a difference. At this time the world were not sure where the war was heading or who's "winning"in a way. In the mean time America, China, and other UN nation continue to give basic aids (food and medicine) to the rebels, but I haven't heard anything at all about the Qaddafi's supporter as of right now. Don't they need aids of some kind too or is it only the hardcore groups that are hold up in a handful of small hold outs left with ample supplies and munition?
Click to expand...

IMO The "frame up" suggestion doesn't wash anymore. There was a slight possibility it might have been a" frame" but they certainly havent been particularly vocal in denying it, and have since more or less admitted that their state companies were involved.

It's not the first time China blames rogue companies for doing things behind their back. Remember the excuses they gave when accused of selling missile technology to NK Iran etc . One would think that after those episodes the CEO's of all companies involved in military production/research would be read the riot act.

" The next one caught doing things that are contrary to Chinas best interest's stops a bullet.

excerptfrom post432

"In an interview with Reuters, a spokeswomen from the Chinese Foreign Ministry says that there were talks between the Gaddafi government and 'several' state owned Chinese arms manufacturers of the sale of weapons to Libya "
 
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