The Chinese gymnasts story - the plot thickens

I believe the usage of performance enhancing substances in professional sports is much more common then so many people think.
For example, from all the 100m Olympic champions since '88 only one was not under heavy suspicion at one time to have used doping, and only four of all the medallists.
A fromer professional sprinter who is currently banned because of doping said "you can't run faster than 9.80s without some 'help'." We are now at 9.69s.
Today, you can make so much money that perhaps truth just doesn't pay anymore. And maybe others are just driven by abnormal ambition.
This goes cross country and cross discipline so to say.
The reports about US officials being lax in that, rumors of chinese practices to do "everything" to come out top in these games, the good old russian "docs" left over from the soviet time ...

AssassinsMace said:

the sterotype of Asians being short and small is like never heard of before and these women are being compared to American women?

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It isn't just about height, it's things like looking very young (even for a gymnast), appearing to have milk teeth, etc.

If the American team and the Chinese team magically switched places you know what the notorious suspects would say? "Why are those Chinese women so big and muscular? They must be taking steroids."

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Mr Mace, do you even understand gymnastics? No one would take steroids to bulk up - being small and springy is best.

And if Michaels Phelps was Chinese, you don't think someone would charge that illegal use of performance drugs was used?

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Do you think that he hasn't been accused of taking drugs today? Incredible athletes get accused all the time regardless of their nationality.

BTW, I love how some can pick and choose what information to believe when it all comes from the same source that's always suspect to the West.

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So how do you explain all these websites suddenly changing their articles after someone noticed they said she was younger than the official story?

Well AssassinsMace when you live in the US you get western news..FOX,ABC,NBC,CBS,CNN etc..etc..

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Sorry but that doesn't really mean anything since they all say the same thing. Did you know that big media outlets won't follow on a story unless it's reported on the AP first? Read newspapers and most articles written are borrowed from larger media outlets. So they're justing repeating what's said from someone else. Not diverse at all.

Just like the story about the fake fireworks. NBC told its audience when it happen that the footprint fireworks were computer generated images. The opening ceremonies program handed out at the ceremony gave credit to the actual girl that actually sung the song. Yet the Western media either hid or sat on the story so it would look like a deception when the Beijing organizers made no attempt to hide it.

You don't think the US media manipulates the news? You've questioned how I debate arguments in this forum. Well I never read or use Chinese or other foreign sources when I do it. I only use Western media sources. Why? Because the West falls on its own sword with the contradictions the Western media shows can't be trusted anymore than the People's Daily or any other foreign news agency that the Western media laughs at.

So who's behind these stories mostly? The British who know they're going to have a hard time following Bejing so thy're looking at anything they can complain about to tarnish the Beijing games.. Oh yeah... the British... the birthplace of tabloid journalism.

Asians are traditionally smaller than Caucasians (not sure its spelt right but meh...)

So far no one has criticised China of taking drugs.....perhaps its because they tricked the West so well into thinking that they do training from when they were little. Its shocking how most western countries have been criticised....but what about China, which won in so many events in which they didn't do very well before?

I'm not saying that they do take drugs, its just that the Chinese seem to have a perfect cover for everything.

kliu0 said:

I'm not saying that they do take drugs, its just that the Chinese seem to have a perfect cover for everything.

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Well they're pretty when it comes to training athletes.

China has imitated this system in its training of top athletes, who are picked out as young children to spend their whole lives taking part in competitions with no consideration for anything else, and no expense spared. They are taken away from their families, from their schools, and totally cut off from normal social activities. The door is closed, and they give up their entire youth and part of their childhoods for the sole aim of entering and winning competitions, an aim for which they are totally re-molded by the system.

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There was a who won gold in the swimming without ever registering on the "international swimming radar". You can take that as being an example of the "system" as Bao Tong described, or a sign she got past the drug tests.

kliu0 said:

Asians are traditionally smaller than Caucasians (not sure its spelt right but meh...)

So far no one has criticised China of taking drugs.....perhaps its because they tricked the West so well into thinking that they do training from when they were little. Its shocking how most western countries have been criticised....but what about China, which won in so many events in which they didn't do very well before?

I'm not saying that they do take drugs, its just that the Chinese seem to have a perfect cover for everything.

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The Chinese gov this time was very strict about being caught doping. There are several top Chinese athletes caught doping by the Chinese Olympics committee and all of them were banned for life, including their coaches. That was a good enough deterrent.

It should not be a surprise for the hosting nation to do well. China wants to win the most gold in this Olympic, so they spend a lot of time and $ getting coaches and training their athlete. You don't automatically qualify for Olympics. You have to take your team to compete often for the past 4 years. There are many article about what the they are planing way before the Olympics even start, so I don't think any body is really surprised. I don't know which media outlets you are watching, but I watch CBC mostly, very few commentator complain. The crowd will cheer for the home town athletes, and that could influence the judges, but it rarely affect the actual metal standing.

AssassinsMace said:

The opening ceremonies program handed out at the ceremony gave credit to the actual girl that actually sung the song.

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I couldn't care less whether she was given credit or not - the fact she was dubbed because the other girl was seen as being "more attractive" or whatever is the problem in my eyes.

Yet the Western media either hid or sat on the story so it would look like a deception when the Beijing organizers made no attempt to hide it.

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1. Who watches the credits?
2. Why dub if not to hide the fact the girl on stage wasn't singing? It's controversial at any live performance.

Because the West falls on its own sword with the contradictions the Western media shows can't be trusted anymore than the People's Daily or any other foreign news agency that the Western media laughs at.

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The French, Swedish, Italian, Dutch, British, American, Swiss, et al media are as bad as the People's Daily? Please, that's nonsense. They're all different, so you can't lump them together like that. Be specific - generalising to dismiss all sources of criticism is silly.

So who's behind these stories mostly? The British who know they're going to have a hard time following Bejing so thy're looking at anything they can complain about to tarnish the Beijing games.

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Yeah, you'll see us having a hard time kicking more people out of their homes to make way for the sporting sites, breaking up more peaceful protests, roughing up more journalists, etc.

I notice you're not talking about the gymnasts any more. Does that mean you think that they were under age?

"international swimming radar"

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That's the same thing for the first Canadian gold, the wrestler also was not on the "radar". But she took out the world champ is two simple rounds. It was not even a contest. Upsets do happen in Olympics.

optionsss said:

That's the same thing for the first Canadian gold, the wrestler also was not on the "radar". But she took out the world champ is two simple rounds. It was not even a contest. Upsets do happen in Olympics.

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One-on-one fighting is different - if you're facing several different girls and break a world record in swimming that's not the same as overpowering one person.

If you'd read the article you'd have seen it suggested the training system/programme to top the medal table was the biggest part of the swimmer's win. However I had a look at that Canadian girl's record - she's won medals before (e.g. silver at the 2006 World Cup). Hardly the same as what the Chinese girl did in the swimming (had she won a medal at any big event?).

It isn't just about height, it's things like looking very young (even for a gymnast), appearing to have milk teeth, etc.

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Didn't I say it was suspcious? If a Chinese expert went on TV and said they were 16, what would you believe? Again there's that prejudice.

Mr Mace, do you even understand gymnastics? No one would take steroids to bulk up - being small and springy is best.

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Do you understand that pointing out the smalller size of someone as suspicious is the same as pointing out someone unusually larger than everyone else is also suspicious? "Bulk up?" and all I heard about the US advantage over every other team was their strength and power. How do you get that again?

Do you think that he hasn't been accused of taking drugs today? Incredible athletes get accused all the time regardless of their nationality.

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Yes I know but this was about the hypocrisy of pointing the finger as someone when you're just as suspicious? I was at a BBQ last night and of course the people there were all angry at the accusing of Michael Phelps of cheating but then these very same people where accusing other countries including China of the same thing. I haven't heard anything from the Chinese side at the Olympics accusing others of cheating except to reply to Bela Karoli's charge. So there's the hypocrisy.

But China's athletes are suspect because of their nationality. The Chinese female swimmer that beat the favored Australian is already indicted as guilty of using drugs to beat the favored Australian woman even though it's been several days now and no word that she cheated from the IOC drug lab yet the articles said she still cheated in someway. American and Westerners don't get that kind of blanket prejudice and stigma even with all those scandals going on in the US about sports and drugs.

So how do you explain all these websites suddenly changing their articles after someone noticed they said she was younger than the official story?

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Again now all of the sudden you're going to pick and choose what information you want to believe from a source that the West prejudicially labels as unrelaible? I do with the Western media but not for the purpose of showing that I'm right. But to prove that whatever source is hypocritical and unreliable. And after all the proven out to be lies reported about the Tibet riot by the Western media, you think they can be trusted about this? I just see words on paper not proof that it's true.

How about this tidbit? The reason why the IOC is not further investigating is because their records they've had before match the dates to papers the Chinese submitted for the Olympics. So even if they did manipulate the records long ago even when they didn't need to be concerned about age, if they say she's 16 now when she looks 12-14, don't you think it would even be more odd back then when she was 14 and looked 8-12 years old. Maybe that's why they didn't bother. Again you're not going believe the IOC but you'll believe a source that notoriously fudges the records... Chinese and the Western media.