The Chinese Cruiser, forget the carrier...

Capital ships

People tend to forget that the Captial Ship has always changed in history. From my standpoint, the CV is in it's last days. Here's why:

-CVs demand an extreme amount of money,support and training.
-Air Force aircraft are cheaper,usually faster and are made in larger numbers.
-SSM and ASM missiles are clear threats to CVSG/CVBGs.
-Submarines are very dangerous opponents for CVs.
-Few nations can afford to spend trillions on the CV,CVSG and CVW.
-Naval aircraft, while very effective are serving in very small numbers.

At the moment the SSN and SSGN are slowly moving into the capital ship seat. Unlike a carrier, subs are very steathly and carry weapons to threaten enemy ships,land facilities and even aircraft. Submarines are very flexible and also very hard to detect. An amphibous assault would likely fail if enemy subs are present, wether firing SSMs and torpedos or flooding the beachhead area with mines and Special Forces.

In my opinion, as long as the US Navy keeps building them, supporting them, and defending them, the carrier will be viewed as the premium capital ship.

Should any one of those three things fail (building, supporting, or defending), then things will move in another direction.

Until one of those nuts is cracked...the carrier will be top dog in the navy and on the world's oceans.

The SSN, with all its other capabilities is intregal to that defense, just as the airwing and the Aegis vessels are. As long as the USN keeps building those and enhancing and improving their technology to be the most capable in the world...no one will crack the other three nuts without significant expenditures, and dare I say, some surprizes that they will have to develop.

Just my opinion.

Gollevainen said:

maybe before the 40's but not in modern world. I would love to hear some points supporting your opinion...

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so if i had 100 arleigh burkes, 50 kilos, 10 lpds, and 20 ticos, i still wont have a blue water navy?

I expect if the chinese start now, they can complete varyag by 08, and get it operatinal by 2010. they can send a crew to train on kutznev while the ship is being completed.

MIGleader said:

so if i had 100 arleigh burkes, 50 kilos, 10 lpds, and 20 ticos, i still wont have a blue water navy?

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Clearly, if you have enough powerful ships, you can be a blue water navy...but if another blue water navy, who sports significant air power on those waves far from shore and land based air, employs that air power against you...you will most assuredly lose.

MIGleader said:

I expect if the chinese start now, they can complete varyag by 08, and get it operatinal by 2010. they can send a crew to train on kutznev while the ship is being completed.

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I would not be surprized to see the Varyag, in some form, shown off by the PLAN in conjunction with the Olympics in 2008.

The missile-bearing ship is the future of naval combat. Forget carriers. In the future, there will be hypersonic missiles that can strike ships a thousand miles away. Also, new electromagnetic rail guns will be able to propel shells at targets over 200 miles away.

Clearly, if you have enough powerful ships, you can be a blue water navy...but if another blue water navy, who sports significant air power on those waves far from shore and land based air, employs that air power against you...you will most assuredly lose.

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Not if you have strike missiles that have greater range than their aircraft. Missiles are harder to shoot down than aircraft. And if really did have 100 arliegh burkes, then it is impossible for their aircraft to get passed you air defences.

MIGleader said:

so if i had 100 arleigh burkes, 50 kilos, 10 lpds, and 20 ticos, i still wont have a blue water navy?

I expect if the chinese start now, they can complete varyag by 08, and get it operatinal by 2010. they can send a crew to train on kutznev while the ship is being completed.

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no you wouldn't you want to know why? YOU HAVE NO TRAINING ON THOSE SHIPS/SUBS!!!

FriedRiceNSpice said:

The missile-bearing ship is the future of naval combat. Forget carriers. In the future, there will be hypersonic missiles that can strike ships a thousand miles away. Also, new electromagnetic rail guns will be able to propel shells at targets over 200 miles away.



Not if you have strike missiles that have greater range than their aircraft. Missiles are harder to shoot down than aircraft. And if really did have 100 arliegh burkes, then it is impossible for their aircraft to get passed you air defences.

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You will have a great fleet, as long as you have ammo on your ships magazines. The number of strike sorties a single carrier can generate will beat your ships. The fire power pack in a single cruise missile is only a small percentage to what a carrier borne aircraft can carry.

Plus it has the added bonus of easier to re arm and refuel while AT SEA. Reloading a ships magazine is a different. You need to be at dock for that, especially for those type of fast flying missiles such as the Sunburn.

In short, a carrier has endurance that no surface warfare ship can hope to match.

not if the russians made a carrier sized super cruser loaded to the teeth with rail guns, misslas, torpedoes, and sensors.

MIGleader said:

not if the russians made a carrier sized super cruser loaded to the teeth with rail guns, misslas, torpedoes, and sensors.

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You mean like the Arsenal SHip, US Navy got rid of that idea because it was not cost effective.

Russians can't afford to keep most of its fleet in operational, what makes you think they can afford to design, build, and arm a ship this size.

MiG Leader, if the PLAN wants a real Blue Water, good at sea support ships are a must. Underway replishment is also part of it. Heavy and Medium lift helicopters are also a big part. If the ships have to stop to refuel at very predicible points, they are easy to attack or neutralize.