tech demostrator or fully fledge prototype

Bltizo said:

^ T-50 has demonstrated TVC with the engines it currently uses, and I believe it can also theoritically supercruise with its current engines. But regardless your point stands true. F-35 doesn't have TVC nor supercruise, it's still considered 5th gen.

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The J-20 can also "theoretically" achieve supercruise like the T-50, but until they actually undergo a supercruise flight test, their potentials mean nothing.

I believe the F-35B has thrust vectoring. The F-135 engine has demonstrated that capability at various airshows.

siegecrossbow said:

The generation concept is vague and doesn't really have clear definitions. I personally dislike it.

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Believe it or not, the generations classifications were used to be based on the time frame in which the aircraft would serve. This would theoretically mean that the HAL LCA Tejas would be considered a 5th generation fighter.

SinoSoldier said:

The J-20 can also "theoretically" achieve supercruise like the T-50, but until they actually undergo a supercruise flight test, their potentials mean nothing.

I believe the F-35B has thrust vectoring. The F-135 engine has demonstrated that capability at various airshows.

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Only downward deflection though.

SinoSoldier said:

The J-20 can also "theoretically" achieve supercruise like the T-50, but until they actually undergo a supercruise flight test, their potentials mean nothing.

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The J-20 theoretically can not, with the current engines they are using on the prototype. The T-50 on the other hand theoretically can (with the current engines on the prototype)

I believe the F-35B has thrust vectoring. The F-135 engine has demonstrated that capability at various airshows.

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Not the type we're talking about, 3D, 2D. the F-35B's is only used in take off landing.

Bltizo said:

The J-20 theoretically can not, with the current engines they are using. The T-50 on the other hand theoretically can.

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Oh, I meant if the J-20 is equipped with the WS-15, the engines which are assumed to be developed for the J-20 and other J-XX fighters.

Prototypes always use engines that are not as powerful as the engines used by the production aircraft.

Bltizo said:

Not the type we're talking about, 3D, 2D. the F-35B's is only used in take off landing.

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If it can be used in take off and landing, I do not see why it can't be used in combat. But yeah, your comment is probably right. It would be easy to configure it to possess 2D and 3D TVC if they wanted.

SinoSoldier said:

Oh, I meant if the J-20 is equipped with the WS-15, the engines which are assumed to be developed for the J-20 and other J-XX fighters.
Prototypes always use engines that are not as powerful as the engines used by the production aircraft.

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Right. I did say "current" engines when I referred to the T-50 before though, meaning the ones on the prototype.

If it can be used in take off and landing, I do not see why it can't be used in combat. But yeah, your comment is probably right. It would be easy to configure it to possess 2D and 3D TVC if they wanted.

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You've seen how the F-35B's tvc works right? it can only deflect downwards to provide vertical thrust. there are panels on the aircraft which have to open to allow it to move, and it's not only the nozzle either -- the whole engine itself sort of rotates. Unless a dogfight involved the F-35 decreasing speed and hovering vertically it will not be very useful.

I imagine configuring it into 3D or 2D tvc like on the Su-35/F-22 respectively would be far harder than "easy".

siegecrossbow said:

The generation concept is vague and doesn't really have clear definitions. I personally dislike it.

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you are more or less correct, but is not so vague.

Each generation used different technologies to be sorted as a generation.

the First generation is well defined by the use of mostly sweept and straigh wings and gun armament.

The second generation used all moving tails. guided missiles, the use of delta wings was more common, variable geometry intakes and area ruled.

The third generation saw the introduction of STOL through lift engines or swing wings or canards, more advanced doppler radars and look down shoot down.

The four generation saw the use of multitarget engagement capability, 9G capability, LERXes and foreplanes relaxed stability and fly by wire and HMS.

The fifth generation is basicly VLO technologies through the use of faceting, supercruise and post stall capability.


Now each aircraft can not use all the technologies even if modified.

VLO technologies are technologies that requiere a new design.

The Su-27 or F-18 can not become true stealth fighters because they can not be modified to the level that thieir fuselage shape won`t change 100% .

In the same way relaxed stability can not be apply to a Me-262 unless extensive modifications are used.

So each geenration incorporates new technologies