Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter III
A tech demostrator it can be produced, in Example the Rafale A, originally the Rafale A was a tech demostrator, later on the Rafale B and C became the prototypes to be produced; the YF-22 pretty much was a basic F-22.
In that case this is purely a case of nominal differences, and the dichotomy between tech demonstrator and prototype is insignificant. The YF-22 was a basic F-22 insomuch as the Rafale A is a basic production Rafale. Key changes were made to the YF-22 before it was tested under your definition of a prototype, before they had a final production model that was itself tested as a prototype before production.
I want to ask you two questions if the J-20 will use TVC nozzles would not make sense to build the pre-production prototype like the YF-22 and T-50-1 with TVC nozzles and fly it now?
Does the T-50-1 have its final radar? No. Does that mean it's not a prototype?
The J-20 has only been in testing for 6 months. We don't know what engine it's using right now, but if the engine technology needs to catch up it can be fitted in later. No country follows the same process for introducing and testing a design. How it plays out is dependent on different needs and conditions..
the YF-22 flew in 1991 and the first F-22 prototype in 1997.
Now if the J-20 flies without the engine it means it will fly the TVC nozzles in perhaps 2-6 years. then you will need another 2-5 years to test the J-20 with TVC nozzles right? and later start production.
Not necessarily. It depends on what needs to be tested with the TVC nozzle. It could take a very long time, or it could be very quick. Furthermore, we don't know when the J-20 will be outfitted with its final engine, and the engine itself doesn't necessarily need to perform all its testing independently. Nothing prevents the engine from being tested concurrently.
Keep in mind though, the engine for the F-22 was ready before the airframe testing was. Also, the time range you're offering is huge.
So at the earliest the J-20 could fly the TVC nozzles and WS-15 in 4-7 years so you will have a real TVC nozzle with thrust vectoring in 2018 and 2-3 years more of test flights.
Going by your timeline, it's doubtful that they would need 2-3 more years of testing the engine on the airframe if the airframe has been tested for 7 years. Also, we know the WS-15 has been in development for a few years now, so it's doubtful that it will take 4-7 years for the final engine to show up in the prototype.
Russia has currently two T-50 flying with TVC nozzles and tested already two engines the AL-41F and the T50 engine with supercruise.
Like any other prototype, the two T-50s have features missing from the final production version. Nothing says that every country follows the same production pathway. Needs and conditions.
what you do not want to admit is the lack of a TVC nozzles and the WS-15 makes the J-20 more of a tech demostrator than the real prototype.
A prototype isn't defined by how complete the first model is but by the intention for the model to go into production.
true like the Rafale A that flew in 1986 and Rafale C that flew in 1992, and started production in 2000, the real J-20 might fly in production form not in 2018 but in 2023.
Depends on the pace of testing. There's nothing that says China can't have an accelerated pace of testing compared to other countries. The J-10 went from first flight to production in around 10 years.
The point is when China will fly the WS-15 and TVC nozzles?
without it is not a F-22 type jet but a larger F-35, and we know the F-35 is a good aircraft but has not the kinematics of the F-22 and T-50.
Who knows, but we know that the design is intended to have TVC. This isn't wishful thinking, unless you think that official statements are wishful and inaccurate.
Without those kinematics the J-20 will fly slower and shorter ranges and will reduce its stealth.
It's a prototype, not a production model. Are you saying the PAK-FA will be stuck with its current engine and won't have the kinematics of the F-22?
