Taiwanese navy under-rated

Dual seeker HF-2 anti-ship missiles, stealthy FACS.....

And doesn't the recent inclusion of the 300km supersonic HF-3 anti-ship missile on a 'Perry (Cheng Kung class) Frigate make give it a comparabable "anti-carrier" capability to the Sov's in PLAN?

Four HF-3 missiles (larger boxes) and four HF-2 (smaller boxes):


And the La'Fayette stealth frigates are often written off because of the "Sea Chaparel" SAMs, but they are stealthy afterall, and may finally be upgraded with TC-2 SAMS.

planeman said:

Dual seeker HF-2 anti-ship missiles, stealthy FACS.....

And doesn't the recent inclusion of the 300km supersonic HF-3 anti-ship missile on a 'Perry (Cheng Kung class) Frigate make give it a comparabable "anti-carrier" capability to the Sov's in PLAN?

Four HF-3 missiles (larger boxes) and four HF-2 (smaller boxes):
[qimg]http://www.anyboard.net/gov/mil/anyboard/uploads/HF3_01.jpg[/qimg]

And the La'Fayette stealth frigates are often written off because of the "Sea Chaparel" SAMs, but they are stealthy afterall, and may finally be upgraded with TC-2 SAMS.

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well, the question is what does the Taiwanese have to guide these long range anti-ship missiles.

The ROCN will have a total of 14 very capable frigates (6 Lafayettes and 8 Perrys) and 4 DDGs once the Lafayettes are upgraded. For ASW they have 8 Know class frigates, but they are quite antiquated and have almost no self defence weaponry other than CIWS. They can carry Harpoons too, so I suppose they could be used as missles carriers.

As for patrol craft/missle boats, the Ching Chiang or Kwang Hua class is currently the most capable because they are stealthy and armed with Hsiung Feng IIs (or Harpoons, different sources say differently.) The ROCN has 50 Hai Ou class boats which are little more than missle trucks but are suitable considering all the ROCN needs tehm for is to fire lots of SSMs at a Chinese fleet. It doesn't matter if they're killed after. In a real war situation, the ROCN probably would get a chance to rearm and reuse most of them anyway.

Underwater operations is the area where the ROCN is weakest. They have only 4 submarines, 2 of which are from the late 1940s (I heard they can't even move.)

Another weakness is the ROCAF's weakness vis-a-vis the PLAAF. The ROCN will not survive without effective air cover. Lastly, the entire island of Taiwan would be very short on fuel supplies come wartime. The navy needs fuel to operate.

However, despite these weaknesses, I also believe that the ROCN is underated and often dismissed, which it should not be.

It's overrated...

HF-3 is a nice weapon, but one weapon do not decide the outcome of the war.

Navalized TC-2 has been delayed for so many times, I'll believe La Fayette has it when I actually see it.

Finn McCool said:

However, despite these weaknesses, I also believe that the ROCN is underated and often dismissed, which it should not be.

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I would have to agree with that, especially if the TC-2 upgrade is successful. Taiwan doesn't have a bad little force at all, in part thanks to the arrival of the Kidd-class destroyers. If they had never been bought things would have looked a bit bleaker - they are a crucial addition to the ROCN.

The ROCN's main problem is that it cannot choose when the Chinese would set sail. If the PLA wishes, it can simply play a game of attrition, wearing down the ROCAF and Taiwan's air defences until the ROCN is totally vunerable. The ROCN can't do a thing about that.

I find it difficult to decide whether it would be better for the ROCN to continue with its current approach of buying big ships (DDGs, FFGs) that can defend themselves or to go with an assymetric approach by basically building a lot of stealthy FACs that act as missle trucks to target the transport ships of the Chinese invasion. More ships = more survivability.

Finn McCool said:

I find it difficult to decide whether it would be better for the ROCN to continue with its current approach of buying big ships (DDGs, FFGs) that can defend themselves or to go with an assymetric approach by basically building a lot of stealthy FACs that act as missle trucks to target the transport ships of the Chinese invasion. More ships = more survivability.

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I don't think there will be any "big ship purchases" after this for quite some time. The Kidds were necessary because of the gap left by the retirement of the Gearings. From now on, in regards to surface vessels it will be things like the Kwang Hua Projects V & VI - corvettes and FACs.

As to submarines, really Taiwan does need some - if the price is right, of course. I think there's a price limit that both the government and legislature has in mind regarding that.

FuManChu said:

I don't think there will be any "big ship purchases" after this for quite some time. The Kidds were necessary because of the gap left by the retirement of the Gearings. From now on, in regards to surface vessels it will be things like the Kwang Hua Projects V & VI - corvettes and FACs.

As to submarines, really Taiwan does need some - if the price is right, of course. I think there's a price limit that both the government and legislature has in mind regarding that.

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Also the problem of whenever or not nations are willing to sell subs to Taiwan... many of the countries that currently build conventional subs are more pro-Beijing than pro-Taiwan... and the Americans have no recent experience in building conventional subs. As much as Taiwan needs new submarines, I just don't see them coming any time soon. I may be wrong, but that is what I can tell.

Pointblank said:

Also the problem of whenever or not nations are willing to sell subs to Taiwan... many of the countries that currently build conventional subs are more pro-Beijing than pro-Taiwan... and the Americans have no recent experience in building conventional subs.

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The Americans can do it if they want to - it appears the problem is more one of internal politics/the USN's paranoia over being made to go conventional by a cost-cutting Congress. Plus they have been stories about Spanish shipyards being potentially involved, as Spain doesn't trade nearly as much with China as countries like Germany do.

Apparently Taiwanese officials are in the US "re-negotiating" the submarine purchase - so maybe there will be a little bit more info about what's going on in the coming weeks. But it could easily be that nothing concrete is announced until sometime next year on cost and construction.

By the way, it isn't as simple as the world being "pro-Beijing" or "pro-Taipei". Germany might not want its submarines being sold to Taiwan, but neither does it want to see the EU-China arms embargo lifted. So it's a very complex matter.

FuManChu said:

The Americans can do it if they want to - it appears the problem is more one of internal politics/the USN's paranoia over being made to go conventional by a cost-cutting Congress. Plus they have been stories about Spanish shipyards being potentially involved, as Spain doesn't trade nearly as much with China as countries like Germany do.

Apparently Taiwanese officials are in the US "re-negotiating" the submarine purchase - so maybe there will be a little bit more info about what's going on in the coming weeks. But it could easily be that nothing concrete is announced until sometime next year on cost and construction.

By the way, it isn't as simple as the world being "pro-Beijing" or "pro-Taipei". Germany might not want its submarines being sold to Taiwan, but neither does it want to see the EU-China arms embargo lifted. So it's a very complex matter.

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Yet somehow Germany does not seem to mind engines of its design end up in PLA subs and tanks.