Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Mr T

Senior Member
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For the last three years, the U.S. has refused to sell Taiwan aircraft weapons that could be used to attack China. In particular, this means no radar homing (AGM-88C HARM) missiles and JDAM smart bombs. To get around this refusal, Taiwan has been building their own version of the American JSOW (Joint Stand Off Weapon) Also called the AGM-154A, the Taiwanese version is called the Wan Chien. Taiwan has recently announced it is building its own version of JDAM.

JSOW is basically a smart bomb with wings. That enables it to glide up to 70 kilometers from the aircraft dropping it, to a target on the ground. Range is about 25 kilometers if dropped from low altitude. JSOW also contains more elaborate fins and software that enables it to follow a specific route. Like the wingless JDAM smart bomb, JSOW uses GPS and inertial guidance (as a backup) to find its target. Like JDAM, JSOW hits within 30 feet of its aiming point. The U.S. pays about $250,000 for each JSOW. The Taiwanese could use their Wan Chien. JSOW as a form of HARM to take out the latest Chinese air defense radars, by adding additional sensors to the guidance system.

Taiwan is also building its own version of HARM, called Tien Chien 2A. JDAM technology is a lot simpler than these two other projects, and Taiwan could easily design and build its own. Refusing to sell them just costs the U.S. export sales. On the other hand, it allows the United States to tell China that it didn't sell JDAM to Taiwan, thus defusing tensions over Taiwan. In reality, of course, Taiwan just built their own JDAM.

JDAM (Joint Direct Attack Munitions, or GPS satellite guided bombs) were developed in the U.S. in the 1990s, shortly after the GPS network went live. In 1991, the GPS system was just coming into service. There were already plans for something like JDAM, but no one was sure that it would work. Once the engineers got onto it, it was discovered that JDAM not only worked, but cost less than half as much to build ($18,000 per bomb) as the air force expected ($40,000 a bomb). The current price is still under $30,000 each.

JDAM was a "kit" that attached little movable wings, along with batteries and a GPS guidance unit, to a normal "dumb" bomb. This enabled the JDAM to hit a target with great precision. The technology was off-the-shelf, so the Taiwanese had no problems developing and building their own.
 

ccL1

New Member
The balance has already been in China's favour for more than a decade now. Balance is defined as both not having any big advantages over each other. China holds alot of the cards, thus naturally the US would want Taiwan to hold more cards at the table. An even playing field naturally.

I thought the Taiwan Relations Act was the trump card in the game though.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
(My brain is a little scattered from lack of sleep, apologies if post might not make sense.)

The TRA is a card held by the US and played as they see fit. It's not something that Taiwan/ROC can always depend on.

Taiwan's entry into WTO means that over the next few years, when the government make major purchases from abroad, such as MRT train carts from Bombidier (?), they won't be able to demand that x% of the components are procured or assembled locally in the purchase agreement. Supporting domestic industry has always been a problem due to lack of confidence. When they import an expensive train, they want to "pay BMW prices for BMW quality". The idea of integrating local components is looked down as inferior.

Military technology is, fortunately, excluded from WTO agreements. This means the government can demand military procurement to buy locally. The US refusing to sell certain weapon systems to Taiwan is both good and bad. It's bad that TW won't be able to import proven systems, but it's also good that the domestic defense industry will get funding to produce the needed systems.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
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Navy arms deal to Taiwan near complete

The U.S. Navy and Lockheed Martin Corp. reached agreement this week on a $1.3 billion deal to refurbish a dozen antisubmarine aircraft for sale to Taiwan, the “last step” forward in a major arms deal stalled since 2007, according to a senior Taiwanese legislative aide familiar with the matter.

“The deal is now going very smoothly,” the aide told Kyodo News on condition of anonymity.

“This is the last step,” he said, referring to plans to ink a contract later this month on refurbishing 12 P3-C Orion aircraft that have already been cleared by the U.S. Congress for sale to Taiwan.

Long-awaited progress on the deal came as the administration of U.S. President Barack Obama said it would seek to boost defense ties with Taiwan, a sticking point in U.S. relations with China, which claims the self-ruled island as part of its territory.

The push for the planes also coincides with U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s first overseas visit, including to China, as top U.S. diplomat.

U.S. National Intelligence Director Dennis Blair hinted in a Feb. 12 Senate committee meeting that Washington would sell Taipei more arms.

“Taiwan should not be so defenseless that it feels it has to do everything China says,” the former four-star Navy admiral said. “That means we’re going to have to help them some more in order to maintain a balance.”

Clinton said Tuesday that Washington’s stance on arms sales to Taipei remains unchanged under Obama, citing the Taiwan Relations Act, which has required Washington to provide Taipei with arms of a defensive nature since 1979.

Clinton’s comments generated fresh tensions with China ahead of her arrival Friday in Beijing, which is still fuming over Congress’ approval in October of a $6.5 billion arms package to Taipei.

Beijing reacted by canceling a slew of planned military exchanges with Washington, a ban that remains in effect.

The $6.5 billion package includes 30 Apache attack helicopters and 330 Patriot (PAC-3) missiles and dates back to a 2001 deal valued at roughly US$18 billion. Amid partisan bickering, Taiwan’s parliament pared down the package over six years and budgeted some items separately.

Designed for hunting submarines, the turboprop-driven P3-C planes, whose delivery to Taiwan should start in 2013, were also included in the 2001 package, but preceded by roughly a year the $6.5 billion deal in their notification to Congress, a key hurdle in the U.S. foreign military sales process.

But the deal appeared to have stalled since receiving congressional approval in 2007.

Though the planes were cleared for sale before Obama took office, the timing of further movement on the deal signals Obama’s readiness to increase military engagement with Taiwan, said Lin Chung-pin, a former deputy defense minister.

“This is part of Admiral Blair’s and Secretary Clinton’s message,” Lin said by phone Thursday, adding, “It serves U.S. interests in the region to continue on with these deals.”

The American Institute in Taiwan, Washington’s de facto embassy in Taipei, declined to comment, referring Kyodo to Lockheed Martin’s Taipei office. The company did not immediately return phone calls Thursday.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
What? It was delayed? 2013 is a long time.

Taiwan is supposedly getting a lot of off-sets in the contract so that's one reason the formal agreement took a while.

I wonder if both sides have inked the 6.5 billion arms package from October.

Nope, though I wouldn't surprised if contracts come along reasonably quickly for obvious reasons.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
I seem to recall reading that the US provided 8 refurb P-3C to Pakistan for free, then offered 2 for lease to India with option to purchase 8 more. The offer was turned down by India.

Lockheed had built some 650 P-3 variants over the years, so I think the US probably has quite a few in stock for refurb and foreign sale.

I think ROCAF initially received the S-2's in 1960's-1970s, before upgrading them to S-2T spec and transferring to ROCN. Rather shocking to see these aircraft with some 40 years of service still flying!

2202.jpg
 

Mr T

Senior Member
I thought all the S-2s are being retired or have been already.....

A small number are still in service so that Taiwan has a modest patrol capability.

(The following article confirms at least some of the Kyodo report.)

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The U.S. Navy said Friday it had reached a tentative deal to refurbish 12 maritime patrol aircraft for a long-awaited transfer to Taiwan as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton arrived in China.

Taiwan signed the formal paperwork in December 2007 for the surplus P-3C Orion aircraft, said Lieutenant Clay Doss, a Navy spokesman. The turboprop-driven P-3C is designed for hunting submarines.

"A tentative agreement has been reached" for a $1.3 billion refurbishing job by Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N), though a contract has not been awarded yet, he said.

The progress toward supplying the aircraft was announced as Clinton was arriving in China for her first visit as President Barack Obama's top diplomat. Earlier in the week, Kyodo News Agency had said the P-3C's were now on track for delivery to Taiwan in 2013, citing a senior Taiwan legislative aide.

China was the last stop on a week-long tour of Asia that earlier took Clinton to Tokyo, Jakarta and Seoul.

China strongly opposes U.S. arms sales to Taiwan, which Beijing has regarded as a renegade province since the 1949 communist victory in a civil war.

Doss said the P-3C aircraft, which are no longer in production, would be refurbished in the United States by Lockheed, the Pentagon's No. 1 supplier. They are being stored at the so-called Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Group in Tucson, Arizona, he said.

So once the P-3Cs arrive they will be retired right?

Yes.
 
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