Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

porkies means telling lies.

if tawain buys rafale that would contradict its claims of self defence only. if biggest if in mankind tawain does get rafale this would pose a problem to china and make china scratch their heads for a while to come up with a solution in countering this. but i would go with f-16 as rafale is extremely expensive for tawain already tight low budget. 1 rafale can get 3 f-16c/d.

deleted

kliu0 said:

I was just wondering, have the French officially ruled out weapons sales? Cauz I remember after the sale of La Fayette and Mirage 2000Es, the French said they would stop selling weapons to Taiwan.

Click to expand...

Well Sarkozy doesn't have to follow what his predecessors have said. Generally they've held true to that statement, but it can be broken anytime Paris calculates they have more to gain than lose from a big sale. It's not as if they don't want to sell on ideological/political grounds.

No point speculating about it at the moment.

PrOeLiTeZ said:

if tawain buys rafale that would contradict its claims of self defence only.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. First, France would have to agree to sell it weapons that would be useful in an air-to-ground attack on China. And even if it did, Taiwan would only use them after China had started a military attack. Obviously Taiwan has to reserve the right to go after Chinese bases in case of war.

but i would go with f-16 as rafale is extremely expensive for tawain already tight low budget. 1 rafale can get 3 f-16c/d.

Click to expand...

I don't think that's quite the case. Perhaps the cost is 2-1 but that depends on how much the extras cost. I think the US tends to tag them on to the basic cost, whilst France includes more in the offer price. However, it would be rather tempting to get the Rafale even though it costs more. The F-16 Block 50/52+ is quite decent, but it's still a 4th generation plane. The Rafale is 4.5 gen, something that Taiwan might not be able to get for quite a while until the F-35 is made available.

France could make a big killing by selling not just Rafales but also other things like AAW upgrades to the Kang Dings. If it sells the Rafale it will annoy China greatly anyway, so it might as well make more money. I've wondered whether submarines could be included in the deal, but I think that's difficult because relatively few countries operate the Scorpene and Taiwan would want a diverse source of spare parts.

I would say that the F-16/US submarine sales are more likely at this point. France would need to make a decision fairly quickly to move forward, as it's quite probably Bush will release more items after the US election but before he leaves office.

deleted

kliu0 said:

So the La Fayettes and Mirage 2000Es aren't getting any upgrades?

Click to expand...

Does France make the only AAW equipment in the world? It's an option, not the only option. RIM-116 is another one.

As for the Mirages, I have no idea.

Whats wrong with Taiwan getting nuclear submarines?

Click to expand...

Oh I dunno, maybe because they're very expensive, difficult to operate from scratch and have very top secret US stuff inside? No one has ever credibly suggested SSNs are on the cards. That's the whole reason why Taiwan's submarine programme has had trouble - the US only builds SSNs but would have to supply SSKs. It probably could do the latter, but they'd be expensive.

]If Taiwan isn't going to get UH-60 Black Hawks, would they be able to obtain European helicopters?

Click to expand...

No idea.

deleted

"I urge the administration to reconsider this decision, in light of its previous commitment to provide submarines and America's previous sales of F-16s"

That s a good point to see that the 2 candidates are fully involved in the question of Taiwan strait. However I do think Mr Mc Cain seems more concerned than Mr Obama. No doubt he would give his total agreement for a quick sale of aircrafts to Taiwan. (Don t ask me who I would vote for, if I were an american citizen ...)

For those who will be in Paris in the next days, and who like french and european defense industry, you can visit an impressive military exposition from the Concorde to the Champs Elysees. You can see the Rafale (big public success!), Mirages, older aicrafts, drones, missiles launchers, and Airbus Thales, Safran Snecma, EADS, MBDA stands (and even others). French aerospace industry is celebrating its centenary. This event is organized from 4 to 12 october 2008. I know it falls out the topic, so I apologize.

U.S. Senator and Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Wednesday he welcomes the Bush administration's decision to notify Congress of a package of weapon systems for Taiwan.

In a statement issued by his national security spokesperson Wendy Morigi, Obama said he looks forward to fully reviewing the notifications and the accompanying justification of the Department of Defense.

"This package represents an important response to Taiwan's defense needs. This action is fully consistent with U.S. obligations under the Taiwan Relations Act," Obama said.

The Pentagon's Defense Cooperation Security Agency on Oct. 3 notified Congress that it had approved the sale of a package of weapons to Taiwan, including 30 Apache attack helicopters, 330 advanced capability Patriot (PAC-3) missiles, 32 Harpoon sub-launched missiles, 182 guided Javelin missile rounds, and four E-2T system upgrades.

The move drew strong protest from China, which has suspended military-to-military exchanges and nonproliferation talks with the United States. Expressing regret over China's decision, Obama said the discussions should be resumed because they are in the interest of both sides.

Obama said he strongly supports the reduction of tensions between China and Taiwan and he commended Chinese President Hu Jintao and Taiwan's President Ma Ying-jeou for their efforts in that regard.

"A strengthening of Taiwan's defenses will not undermine the process of reduction of tensions and can actually promote it, " the statement read.

Click to expand...

Obama backs the sales too.

deleted

kliu0 said:

A sign of things to come if McCain is elected?
------------------------------------------------
U.S. should stand by Taiwanese people: presidential candidate
CNA
Thursday, October 9, 2008 3:50 am

Washington –– America should continue to sell defensive weapons to Taiwan in the future and stand by Taiwan's people, U.S. Republican presidential candidate John McCain said Tuesday.

Click to expand...

McCain Lobbies For Taiwan Arms Sales After Taiwan Signs Lobbying Contract With His Adviser’s Firm

The Bush administration is currently in discussions to send $6 billion in arms to Taiwan. Yesterday, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) sent a letter to President Bush, urging him to “add more submarines and new fighter jets to the package” as Taiwan had requested:

“The package will not include submarines or new F-16 aircraft. I urge the administration to reconsider this decision, in light of its previous commitment to provide submarines and America’s previous sales of F-16s,” McCain said. “These sales — which could translate into tens of thousands of jobs here at home — would help retain America’s edge in the production of advanced weaponry and represent a positive sign in these difficult economic times.”

McCain’s desire to increase arms sales to Taiwan, however, raises questions about yet another conflict of interest involving his chief foreign policy adviser Randy Scheunemann, who previously lobbied for the Taiwanese government. The Washington Post reports:

In 2005, Scheunemann signed the contract between his firm, Orion Strategies LLC, and Taiwan’s Washington office. On June 4 of this year, his partner, Mike Mitchell, signed a renewal of the contract, which calls for quarterly payments of 50,000.

Scheunemann represented Taiwan from 2003 to March at Orion. The LA Times reported that McCain has pushed for pro-Taiwan legislation, as Orion’s lobbying forms cite “bills benefiting Orion’s other foreign clients: Latvia, Macedonia, Romania and Taiwan.”

Scheunemann introduced McCain to a representative of Taiwan as it lobbied for free trade. In all, Scheunemann’s firm has lobbied McCain or his aides on at least 47 occasions since 2001 on behalf of the governments of Taiwan, Macedonia, Romania and Latvia.

Matt Duss notes that Scheunemann has lobbied for Lockheed-Martin, the world’s largest defense contractor, which manufactures the F-16s that McCain is demanding the U.S. give to Taiwan. Scheunemann had also been employed as a lobbyist for Georgia at the same time he was providing foreign policy advice to McCain, lobbying McCain himself nearly 50 times between 2004 and 2007.