Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Taiwan struggles to acquire 5 types of submarine tech for local program
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April 7, 2017
MELBOURNE, Australia — Taiwan is short five critical pieces of submarine technology that it needs to achieve its aim of building a new class of indigenous submarines, according to a Taiwanese defense analyst.

Speaking to Defense News, Liao Yen-fan, a Taipei-based analyst for the cybersecurity research firm Team T5 that also focuses on air power and the Taiwanese military, said the local defense industry still needs to import the technology for these five items, which include modern torpedo tubes and periscopes.

Liao was citing representatives from Taiwan’s Ching Fu Shipbuilding, the company in charge of designing the combat system and the largest subcontractor for Taiwan’s domestic submarine program. The program currently is in the design phase and is led by the state-run National Chung-Shan Institute of Science and Technology, or NCSIST. CSBC Corporation is the main contractor.

It's unclear what other critical submarine technology Taiwan requires, although it likely includes air-independent propulsion technology or an equivalent to allow the submarine to be practically silent when operating in a submerged environment.

Liao told Defense News that Taiwanese delegations have recently been dispatched around the world to try and secure the needed technology transfer, including to the United States and Japan. However, it is understood that Japan has refused Taiwan’s request for assistance, almost certainly out of fear of antagonizing China, which sees Taiwan as a breakaway province and has not ruled out the use of force to reunify the island with the mainland.

A budget equivalent to $94.81 million has been allocated from December 2016 to December 2020 for the design of the new boats, according to an earlier report presented by Taiwan’s Ministry of National Defense. Construction of the boats will follow the design phase, with CSBC expecting the first submarine to be built in eight years and entering service with Taiwan's Navy 10 years after completion of the design.

The Navy is in the process of upgrading its two Zwaardvis-class diesel-electric submarines purchased from the Netherlands in the 1980s, with local media reporting that NCSIST will enlist the help of foreign companies for the upgrade. The institute also completed an evaluation of periscope upgrades and is in the process of reviewing a design to upgrade their weapons systems.

Submarines will be an important asymmetric capability and will complicate any attempt by China to take Taiwan by force, even though the former has undertaken a massive effort to modernize its armed forces and now outguns Taiwan by a significant margin.

In contrast, Taiwan has been compelled to increasingly rely on local industry to meet its defense needs, with China having successfully used its substantial economic and political clout to restrict the sale of advanced weapons to Taiwan.

This reluctance could prove to be a serious stumbling block to Taiwan’s submarine ambitions. Several Western European countries, most notably Sweden, France and Germany, have established submarine programs and will possess the technology that Taiwan needs. However, like Japan, they would likely loathe to anger China with the sale of such significant weapons technology to Taiwan. Even the United States, which is bound by the Taiwan Relations Act to assist Taiwan, has severely limited its arms sales to what it deems as “self-defense” weapons.

Taiwan is hoping that this will change under the Trump administration — hopes which have been given fresh impetus with reports in March that the administration is planning a new arms package for the east Asian island.

However, Reuters has also reported that the approval of any arms package is certain to be complicated by China’s sensitivities, warning that the "completion of a package also could be held up by the slow pace at which the Trump administration is filling national security jobs."
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FORBIN

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Navy plans to build an upgraded version of corvette:

A military source on Friday confirmed plans for the production of an upgraded version of the navy’s Tuo Chiang-class stealth corvette that is to incorporate expanded anti-aircraft capabilities.

The new vessel type is to be longer, wider and equipped with 3D radar systems and a ship-to-air version of the Tien Chien II (“Sky Sword”) guided missile system.

A total of 11 vessels are to be produced in three lots, for a total of 12 ships including the original Tuo Chiang-class corvette, the source said.

The navy plans to begin operating three of the new vessels and make design adjustments where needed before commissioning the subsequent two lots, the source said, adding that the first lot is scheduled to be completed by 2025 at a cost of NT$14.434 billion (US$471.68 million).

Navy contractors are to submit final designs by the end of this month, when final bidding for the contract is also to take place, the source said.

The displacement of the upgraded vessels is to increase by about 100 tonnes from the current model’s 567 tonnes. They are also being designed to reach a maximum speed of more than 30 knots (55.56kph), the source said.

The class’ length is to be increased from 60.4m to 65m, while width is to increase from 14m to 15m and draft is to increase from 2.3m to 3m, the source said.

The size increases would result in ships of the upgraded class being able to carry more personnel, from the original vessel’s 41 crew to 53, with sleeping quarters to be adjusted to accommodate the additional personnel, the source said.

The decision to upgrade the Tuo Chiang-class corvette was based primarily on a need to improve its anti-aircraft capabilities, the source said, adding that the Tien Chien II missile and 3D radar systems would complement the current model’s Hsiung Feng II and Hsiung Feng III (“Brave Wind”) anti-ship missiles.

“The Hsiung Feng and Tien Chien missile systems can be combined in whatever configuration the mission calls for,” the source added.

The biggest visible change would be to the radar mast, which is to be larger on the upgraded vessels due to the 3D radar system, the source said.

The bridge on the new vessels would be larger than the original’s, with a closed tower-style mast containing the radar system fitted above, the source added.

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Blitzo

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
FORBIN said:
A total of 11 vessels are to be produced in three lots, for a total of 12 ships including the original Tuo Chiang-class corvette, the source said.

The navy plans to begin operating three of the new vessels and make design adjustments where needed before commissioning the subsequent two lots, the source said, adding that the first lot is scheduled to be completed by 2025 at a cost of NT$14.434 billion (US$471.68 million).
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One lot = 3 ships

The first lot is meant to be commissioned by 2025. So it'll take the industry and ROC Navy 7.5 years to launch, fit out and commission 3 Tuo Chiang corvettes? Or is it meant to be 2 corvettes, seeing as the "first lot" sounds like it'll include the first Tuo Chiang as well???

I imagine this isn't representative of the ROC's shipbuilding industry as a whole, because if it is then I don't know how long their next generation destroyer and frigate plans are going to take, never mind their helicopter carrier...
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Skywatcher said:
Wait, spend over $150 million for a 700 FAC? What the heck are they smoking in Taipei?
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They invested money into a high tech vessel. It is a stealthy catamaran, that carries 16 ASMs and was more of a tech demonstrator.

Now they have decided what they want to do with it, and that means they are going to make it a little bigger and decent AAW capabilities to it and a decent radar system and battle management suite.

Having twelve of them will be a good thing for Taiwan.

Any time you try and step up to higher tech...you have to spend money...particularly a small nation like Taiwan that is never going to build larger ships in any great numbers...so that means the ones they do build are expensive.

Here's how that first one looks:

19242884.jpg

15805283607_dc47838062_k.jpg

33.jpg

Now, Taiwan has a much smaller, true FAC class, that has four ASMs and is pretty stealthy too.

15206199408_bdb65a5256_b.jpg

15950938690_172e75ca81_b.jpg

They built thirty of these.

So, having one of those larger corvette/frigate sized vessel accompany a small flotilla of these smaller vessels and provide air coverage to them, plus 16 more missiles, would make for a decent surface group...all of which would be fairly stealthy, and carry a large bang for their buck.

Fuur of the small one plus grouped wth one of the larger ones means 32 ASMs Something any potential adversary would have to respect.
 
D

delft

Brigadier
Jeff Head said:
They invested money into a high tech vessel. It is a stealthy catamaran, that carries 16 ASMs and was more of a tech demonstrator.

Now they have decided what they want to do with it, and that means they are going to make it a little bigger and decent AAW capabilities to it and a decent radar system and battle management suite.

Having twelve of them will be a good thing for Taiwan.

Any time you try and step up to higher tech...you have to spend money...particularly a small nation like Taiwan that is never going to build larger ships in any great numbers...so that means the ones they do build are expensive.

Here's how that first one looks:

View attachment 37912

View attachment 37913

View attachment 37914

Now, Taiwan has a much smaller, true FAC class, that has four ASMs and is pretty stealthy too.

View attachment 37915

View attachment 37916

They built thirty of these.

So, having one of those larger corvette/frigate sized vessel accompany a small flotilla of these smaller vessels and provide air coverage to them, plus 16 more missiles, would make for a decent surface group...all of which would be fairly stealthy, and carry a large bang for their buck.

Four of the small one plus grouped wth one of the larger ones means 32 ASMs Something any potential adversary would have to respect.
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That wouldn't keep their merchant ports working. War will not become an option.
 
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D

delft

Brigadier
Jura said:
FACs are typical asymmetric-naval-warfare assets (delft you may be aware of the long series of Soviet Osas, Komars, Tarantuls ... to mention just AShMs-armed), meant to "defend against an overwhelming force by hit and run"
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I am well aware of them. I remember were I was, baby sitting, when the Egyptian navy sank the Israeli destroyer Eilat in 1967. That was, after the use of guided missiles by the Luftwaffe in WWII in sinking a.o. the Italian battleship Roma, the first use of guided missiles against a warship. Two Komars fired four Styx missiles of which one came too late to hit Eilat.
 
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