Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Equation said:
Taiwan has been in a "defensive posture" for decades ... They know nobody's realistically going to rescue that illegal regime with China's current A2/AD are has been implemented and getting better and better.
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While I agree that war over Taiwan is not likely, and that the ROC is not in a position to defeat the PRC in the least, they are still what they are.

I have visited Taiwan on numerous occasions and the people there certainly do not feel they are illegal.

As to A2/AD, sorry Equation, , if you are speaking of the DF-21D...it remains a fact that it has never been tested operationally...at all.

Until such testing occurs that component of A2/AD is no more than vaporware and a big Sun Tsu bluff.

Finally...

The Taiwan Defense News Thread is not a place to diss Taiwan or its people or efforts. Discuss the defense projects, the systems, their actual capabilities, and the deployments.

BUT LEAVE ALL OF THIS IDEOLOGICAL AND POLITICAL WRANGLING and dissing out of it.

We will not allow that here anymore than we will anywhere else.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THE MODERATION
 
S

Skywatcher

Captain
Going back to the DPP's little new fighter idea, there's obviously no way you can pay for it with just $100 billion NTD.

Redesigning the F-CK-1 airframe to carry a 4-5 ton payload alone is going to cost them at least $1 billion USD. AIDC will then have to buy a bunch of new machinery to build the next generation 4.5+ fighter with composites. Then let's not get into how much the sensors and avionics are, RAM and composites, and to get a modified foreign powerplant...

$5-6 billion USD is a realistic figure, and that's assuming that they'll be happy with a Gripen NG like fighter.
 
M

mr.bean

Junior Member
Skywatcher said:
Going back to the DPP's little new fighter idea, there's obviously no way you can pay for it with just $100 billion NTD.

Redesigning the F-CK-1 airframe to carry a 4-5 ton payload alone is going to cost them at least $1 billion USD. AIDC will then have to buy a bunch of new machinery to build the next generation 4.5+ fighter with composites. Then let's not get into how much the sensors and avionics are, RAM and composites, and to get a modified foreign powerplant...

$5-6 billion USD is a realistic figure, and that's assuming that they'll be happy with a Gripen NG like fighter.
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we can dismiss that article, it's nothing more than for domestic politics. my taiwanese friends simply laugh at such nonsense. there is zero chance a new fighter jet project can be done in todays taiwan. their aircraft industry is hollowed out after years of having nothing to produce. their shipbuilding industry is the same. this ridiculous new fighter jet article is like the equally absurd submarine production program that keeps popping up once in awhile. taiwan simply has no funds, no political commitment, no technology, no ambition to pull off any jet fighter nor submarine project. all they can do is beg/lobby the united states to sell them something so that their military can at least look a little better on paper and in television cameras.
 
Ultra

Ultra

Junior Member
TerraN_EmpirE said:
Depending on administration The US could, and in the past has sold engines to the ROC.
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I think you misunderstood me.
Yes, they did, but hugely underpowered one that was fited on the F-CK-1. What I meant was that - "any engine of any worth to Taiwan" should have been the
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-GE-402) Instead of the pathetic 27 kN dry thrust, 42.1 kN with afterburner
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Turbofan engine.

A bit of history - Taiwan only started to pursue the F-CK-1 indigenous fighter program after USA refused to sell F-16 to Taiwan due to the 1982 US-China
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which limits arms sales to Taiwan. The rationale back then was to build relation with China to counter USSR. At the same time South Korea was also trying to buy F-16, and instead of just getting F-16, they not only got them they got to license build them in South Korea! The treatment stands in a stark contrast to Taiwan - South Korea was later also offered all the latest goodies (including what essentially is a license built Burke) while all Taiwan got was the antique rejects.
 
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S

Skywatcher

Captain
mr.bean said:
we can dismiss that article, it's nothing more than for domestic politics. my taiwanese friends simply laugh at such nonsense. there is zero chance a new fighter jet project can be done in todays taiwan. their aircraft industry is hollowed out after years of having nothing to produce. their shipbuilding industry is the same. this ridiculous new fighter jet article is like the equally absurd submarine production program that keeps popping up once in awhile. taiwan simply has no funds, no political commitment, no technology, no ambition to pull off any jet fighter nor submarine project. all they can do is beg/lobby the united states to sell them something so that their military can at least look a little better on paper and in television cameras.
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If AIDC's institutional knowledge base has declined that badly, a new fighter could well go into the $10 billion USD range just for R&D costs.

That's essentially their defense budget for one year...
 
P

PanAsian

Major
Ultra said:
I think you misunderstood me.
Yes, they did, but hugely underpowered one that was fited on the F-CK-1. What I meant was that - "any engine of any worth to Taiwan" should have been the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
-GE-402) Instead of the pathetic 27 kN dry thrust, 42.1 kN with afterburner
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Turbofan engine.

A bit of history - Taiwan only started to pursue the F-CK-1 indigenous fighter program after USA refused to sell F-16 to Taiwan due to the 1982 US-China
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
which limits arms sales to Taiwan. The rationale back then was to build relation with China to counter USSR. At the same time South Korea was also trying to buy F-16, and instead of just getting F-16, they not only got them they got to license build them in South Korea! The treatment stands in a stark contrast to Taiwan - South Korea was later also offered all the latest goodies (including what essentially is a license built Burke) while all Taiwan got was the antique rejects.
Click to expand...

A significant concern to the US is espionage by the PRC in Taiwan. It would be an unnecessary gamble to sell Taiwan the good stuff only to have it be IP transfer to the PRC.
 
Ultra

Ultra

Junior Member
PanAsian said:
A significant concern to the US is espionage by the PRC in Taiwan. It would be an unnecessary gamble to sell Taiwan the good stuff only to have it be IP transfer to the PRC.
Click to expand...

Back in 80s there wasn't that much espionage by PRC as PRC is viewed as extremely poor and low tech much like North Korea is now. Even given the tech PRC couldn't reverse engineer out of it - for example the Blackhawaks was a puzzle to the PRC engineers for over 30 years only until recently did they finally cracked it. Essentially, Taiwan is no more of a espionage risk as South Korea.
Back then the Nationalist Party of Taiwan (The Kuomintang) was also fiercely anti-communist so the risk was extremely low. Taiwan was rich, and the "factory of the world" much like China is now (A famous quote in the movie Armageddon - "....Everything is made in Taiwan!").

So the whole situation was entirely political as I stated before, that US wanted to cozy up to China to counter USSR, and in the process Taiwan became the sacrificial lamb.

Fast forward 35 years, The Kuomintang is now in bed with the communist, Taiwan has its "lost decades" like the Japanese, wages are at 1990 level as if economy hasn't advance one bit for the past 25 years. Young people are poor, lost, and angry. I now often wonder what the heck happened during the past 25 years I was away.
 
P

PanAsian

Major
Ultra said:
Back in 80s there wasn't that much espionage by PRC as PRC is viewed as extremely poor and low tech much like North Korea is now. Even given the tech PRC couldn't reverse engineer out of it - for example the Blackhawaks was a puzzle to the PRC engineers for over 30 years only until recently did they finally cracked it. Essentially, Taiwan is no more of a espionage risk as South Korea.
Back then the Nationalist Party of Taiwan (The Kuomintang) was also fiercely anti-communist so the risk was extremely low. Taiwan was rich, and the "factory of the world" much like China is now (A famous quote in the movie Armageddon - "....Everything is made in Taiwan!").

So the whole situation was entirely political as I stated before, that US wanted to cozy up to China to counter USSR, and in the process Taiwan became the sacrificial lamb.

Fast forward 35 years, The Kuomintang is now in bed with the communist, Taiwan has its "lost decades" like the Japanese, wages are at 1990 level as if economy hasn't advance one bit for the past 25 years. Young people are poor, lost, and angry. I now often wonder what the heck happened during the past 25 years I was away.
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A lot? Both locally and worldwide. 35 years is a looooong time. ;)
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Skywatcher said:
Going back to the DPP's little new fighter idea, there's obviously no way you can pay for it with just $100 billion NTD.

Redesigning the F-CK-1 airframe to carry a 4-5 ton payload alone is going to cost them at least $1 billion USD. AIDC will then have to buy a bunch of new machinery to build the next generation 4.5+ fighter with composites. Then let's not get into how much the sensors and avionics are, RAM and composites, and to get a modified foreign powerplant...

$5-6 billion USD is a realistic figure, and that's assuming that they'll be happy with a Gripen NG like fighter.
Click to expand...
Agreed 100%. The ROC is not going to develop a strong, 5th generation contender.

But they are capable of developing a 4 or 4.5 generation aircraft that is decent.

To do that they are going to need industrial deals and exchanges...but that can happen.

Whether they spend as much as they are talking or not, is another matter. If they are willing to accept something like a Gripen and then arm it with decent AAMs, then that is achievable.
 
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